Haters: Individually Built ARs

[SwingW/theWing]

I haven't noticed it so much here but I hear it at gun shops and with friends of friends...why do people not like a AR that somebody built outside of a big name manufacturer. The other day my rifle was referred fans a frankengun. I didn't really care but I was curious if this was an elitist type attitude of just ignorance. My rifle has BCM barrel and BCG, VLtor A5 setup, Midwest Industries hand guard, and Mag Tactical upper/lower. This is not some rifle that I tossed together after I found a bunch of spare pieces. So what do you guys say about this kinda of attitude?

 

[Kutnupe14]

They simply lack the ability to build a gun themselves. Don't sweat the Fisher Price RTR (ready to run) guys, who just open boxes with expensive things in them.

 

[cerebus85]

Meh...if your happy that's all that matters. A few years back I had a gun shop owner tell me the same thing about my spikes. Openly scoffed and Said it was piece rifle and not worth much.. I would ignore it and be happy you built something that your proud of.

 

[SwingW/theWing]

Had a similar experience at a shop in martinsville their logic was that the rifle lacked a warranty.

 

[KG1]

I don't build the rifles that I have to please others. On the other hand to be honest the rifles that I build with the parts that I choose may not necessarily appeal to someone else so it could potentially affect any resale prospects.

 

[DanVoils]

It's pretentious people thinking that if it's not a name brand off the shelf item that it's not worthy of their attention. It's the same people who have buyers remorse at the range when our home built frankengun (their words) out shoots and out performs their $2,500 name brand. They do not want to admit they made a bad decision or purchase. I really feel sorry for them as they probably do not know how their gun operates beyond pulling the trigger. By building a gun to your specs it is your gun and you know every detail about it. I ignore their BS remarks and enjoy my guns and builds.

 

[churchmouse]

Had a similar experience at a shop in martinsville their logic was that the rifle lacked a warranty.

It kills me that folks live for a warranty.
No knock but unless my gun blows up in my hand I am not mailing it off to be worked on.

 

[SwingW/theWing]

This are the same feelings that I have towards the haters. Are there any good one liners to hit them with?

 

[bmoan]

If I hand build a custom car with custom parts its worth more because of craftsmanship, I feel the same way about my ar

 

[17 squirrel]

Sure, Mine will sell for half of what your Colt / Rock River will sell for...

 

[bmoan]

I can take a dump in a box and stamp a warranty on it but then all I have is a guaranteed piece of (well you know)

 

[M67]

Am I the only person who read the title of this thread and see people doing exactly what they were complaining about? Instead of people "hating" on their home builds, they're "hating" on people who buy factory guns.

Frankengun is a general term for a parts gun, big deal.

I have a complete home build, a complete Spikes upper on a lower I built, several factory rifles; and if I were going to sell them, I'd expect to receive less for my parts gun, especially if selling to a gun store that has to resell it. There's no set value on parts, at least for a factory gun you can fall back on a bluebook or check gunbroker to get an estimate of value. Just because I built a rifle the way I wanted it doesn't mean it will be the way someone else wants it. I know people buy factory guns and alter them, that the factory built them the way they want them to be but it's just an accepted process.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I haven't noticed it so much here but I hear it at gun shops and with friends of friends...why do people not like a AR that somebody built outside of a big name manufacturer. The other day my rifle was referred fans a frankengun. I didn't really care but I was curious if this was an elitist type attitude of just ignorance. My rifle has BCM barrel and BCG, VLtor A5 setup, Midwest Industries hand guard, and Mag Tactical upper/lower. This is not some rifle that I tossed together after I found a bunch of spare pieces. So what do you guys say about this kinda of attitude?

1. Does your gun run? If so, who cares what it is called.

2. Get in the Way Back Machine with me and let me take you to the days before AR-15s came in cereal boxes. When the first non-Colt guns were out, many guys were mixing and matching, there were . . . less than optimal results with SGW, PACWEST, inter alia. This became a "cultural memory" and the term Frankengun was used.

Again, if your gun survives class after class and does not fail, then just smile and nod.

 

[223 Gunner]

I would say it because of re-sale value. People in the market, do not know or trust your ability to build a rifle correctly.
I'm always suspicious about "home builds", thinking did this guy do something wrong and figured out it was wrong and now going to cost him more to make it right than what he wants to spend. So now maybe he is trying to sell it to someone else and pass off his problem.

I rarely buy an AR used, for the fact they are like a "hot rod", has the guy been doing Youtube videos, running it hard, heating up the barrel with mag dump after mag dump. Just too many unknowns with a home build. Like someone else stated, at least with a factory gun, if something should happen to go wrong there is some recourse with the factory.
Then there is the quality of the parts, along with skill level. I have assembled a few lowers, but that's it, I don't know how to change a barrel or build an upper.
So if I buy your home build and the barrel is not indexed correctly or you somehow ruined the barrel, I'm going to have to try and find someone who can install a new barrel, now all the money I "saved" buying your rifle is out the door and I have the added hassle of finding a competent gunsmith to install a new barrel.
I can understand a gun shop not wanting to take on the risk and their reputation when one of the regulars buys your mistake. Now the shop is on the hook to make it right.
These are probably some of the reasons people frown on home builds. I say if you do a home build, it should be a rifle you never intend to re-sell, as you may or may not get your money back.

I'm not knocking guys who build their own rifles, I think there are some very competent people on this site, I'm just not one of them, so my hard earned money will not be buying a potential mistake.

As always YMMV.

 

[KG1]

1. Does your gun run? If so, who cares what it is called.

2. Get in the Way Back Machine with me and let me take you to the days before AR-15s came in cereal boxes. When the first non-Colt guns were out, many guys were mixing and matching, there were . . . less than optimal results with SGW, PACWEST, inter alia. This became a "cultural memory" and the term Frankengun was used.

Again, if your gun survives class after class and does not fail, then just smile and nod.

Spot on Kirk. If the rifle that I build does what I expect it to do then I have accomplished what I set out to do. This rifle pleases ME.

 

[Disposable Heart]

For every nicely built AR I've seen, however, I've seen at least 5 that were home builds that didn't run worth a hoot.

Individual built ARs are a mixed bag: People want more for them because in their minds they are "custom" or they have emotional interest invested in the piece of weapon (I built it with my own two hands!!).

Stores generally don't like home builds because of the stigma associated with it: I don't know you well and don't know your skills/setup/success, so I am taking a huge risk in the rifle not working right/blowing up/injuring someone because someone is trying to pass off a bunch of "good" parts as a great build.

I've seen guns with awesome individual parts take a dive due to poor fitment and poor build skills. I've seen crap parts run like a sewing machine because the builder knew what they were doing. Everything is subjective and thus why alot of folks just don't trust them.

As others have said: I'm not building a rifle to please someone else, I am building one to satisfy my particular needs that rifle is tailored for. Selling it? Good luck. Keeping it? Enjoy it!

 

[Que]

I've never said or implied it to be an insult. I just thought it (Frankenfun) meant to take a lot of mixed-manufactured parts to make a rifle. That can be done with very expensive and high quality parts or with inexpensive parts.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I would say it because of re-sale value. People in the market, do not know or trust your ability to build a rifle correctly.
I'm always suspicious about "home builds", thinking did this guy do something wrong and figured out it was wrong and now going to cost him more to make it right than what he wants to spend. So now maybe he is trying to sell it to someone else and pass off his problem.

I rarely buy an AR used, for the fact they are like a "hot rod", has the guy been doing Youtube videos, running it hard, heating up the barrel with mag dump after mag dump. Just too many unknowns with a home build. Like M67 stated, at least with a factory gun, if something should happen to go wrong there is some recourse with the factory.
Then there is the quality of the parts, along with skill level. I have assembled a few lowers, but that's it, I don't know how to change a barrel or build an upper.
So if I buy your home build and the barrel is not indexed correctly or you somehow ruined the barrel, I'm going to have to try and find someone who can install a new barrel, now all the money I "saved" buying your rifle is out the door and I have the added hassle of finding a competent gunsmith to install a new barrel.
I can understand a gun shop not wanting to take on the risk and their reputation when one of the regulars buys your mistake. Now the shop is on the hook to make it right.
These are probably some of the reasons people frown on home builds. I say if you do a home build, it should be a rifle you never intend to re-sell, as you may or may not get your money back.

I'm not knocking guys who build there own rifles, I think there are some very competent people on this site, I'm just not one of them, so my hard earned money will not be buying a potential mistake.

As always YMMV.

Excellent statement, Gunner.

In pioneer days many folks built their own guns. In the jungles of Borneo, many were still building musket-type rifles in the 1980s because the government banned personal ownership of guns (I have one hanging on my wall). In these situations, every gun was one of a kind, and only one skilled in smithing was able to make them. Costs were high.

Eventually the concept of mass production was embraced in the USA and Europe. Guns were made faster and cheaper by producing interchangeable parts, built to exact specifications. The units were reliable and durable. Consider the M1 Carbine. All parts built to military specifications by many suppliers. Cannibalized units were used for years around the world.

Now, we are back to gunsmiths making their own rifles in their garage. We have the same problems with such customized units. Too many unknowns for general use. This forum is filled with references to the work done by "Bubba." No one wants a gun built by or modified by Bubba. When someone offers a "home build" for sale, how is the buyer to distinguish between a Bubba unit and a unit skillfully crafted by an expert and talented gunsmith?

I do not have the skill to distinguish Bubba's work from a craftsman's work, so I will not buy a home built unit. One can offer me a unit with $3,000 worth of upgrades and high performance parts for $500 and I will not buy it. The only difference between Bubba and the expert is Bubba's "guarantee."

 

[seedubs1]

Yeah, it's a frankengun. They're the only type of AR I own. I know I built them right. They run well.

When I sell.....I sell components. I wouldn't expect anyone to trust my building skills, even though I know what I'm doing. Plus, individual quality components parted out will sell for more than some random guy's frankengun.

And obviously there's going to be a stigma in an LGS. Most people that come in are idiots. I wouldn't trust some random guy off the street's home build. Heck no. And I sure as heck wouldn't buy one from a LGS. No freaking way.

Have you looked up "home gunsmithing fails?" I think that says it all. Without completely taking a frankenar apart down to punching out roll pins, you would have no idea if some part didn't quite fit right, so bubba took a dremmel to it, effed it up, and shoved it back together before trying to sell it to you.

 

[Vigilant]

To add to everything already stated, my low opinion of parts guns comes from the time and money wasted while sitting in classes waiting on someone to help unf*** bubbas frankenAR put together with whatever was cheapest online or in the parts bin. I spend a lot in tuition, ammo, and travel, and it pisses me off when someone wastes mine and others' time and money with "just as good as"! I have and use several home built AR's, but they are put together correctly with the highest quality parts available. I'm also a big fan of factory rifles from QUALITY sources. NO, contrary to popular(on INGO) opinion, parts ain't parts, and not all ARs and AR manufacturers are the same! I have taken to carrying two ARs, to every class, just in case one goes down on me, but more importantly, in case Budweiser Bob's FrankenAR goes **** up, it's easier, faster, and cheaper, to loan him a spare than to diagnose and repair a poor quality build while on the line.