have you ever been checked for your NFA stamps?

[ljk]

I searched the FAQ section but couldn't find the answer.

what is the proper protocol when you are approached by someone outside your home to check your NFA paper work? i.e. when you are at a public shooting range.

who has the proper credential to check your paperwork? local sheriff and police, ATF, FBI, DEA, IRS, range safety officer, Superman, Ironman or whatever.

I wanna know the best way to protect my rights and at the same time, cooperate in the best way to get it over with as soon as possible.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Nope, never. The only agency with the authority to request them is the ATF. Full stop.
That stated, if an LEO asks me, I'm showing them. IF they take them away because they think you've unlawfully made an NFA item it's a pain in the ass to get them back.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Nope, never. The only agency with the authority to request them is the ATF. Full stop.

In terms of federal authority this is correct. However, Indiana state has a statute that parallels federal statutes that makes NFA firearms unlawful unless registered with the federal govt. Therefore, local law enforcement also have the authority to verify that you firearm is legally registered and therefore in compliance with State law. If you refuse to verify (show them your stamp) they have the authority to confiscate it as contraband and possibly arrest you as well.

This can all be a bit confusing to say the least but here is my list of who gets to see paperwork: ATF agents, Local & state law-enforcement.

Now, on to "range-master" etc. If you are shooting on private property you must comply with the rules/wishes of said property owner/manager. Therefore, they have the "authority" to request to see your paperwork. You, however, have the right to refuse. If you refuse, at most, they have authority to tell you to leave. If you refuse to leave they can call the LEO to have you trespassed...

 

[rvb]

In terms of federal authority this is correct. However, Indiana state has a statute that parallels federal statutes that makes NFA firearms unlawful unless registered with the federal govt. Therefore, local law enforcement also have the authority to verify that you firearm is legally registered and therefore in compliance with State law. If you refuse to verify (show them your stamp) they have the authority to confiscate it as contraband and possibly arrest you as well.

This can all be a bit confusing to say the least but here is my list of who gets to see paperwork: ATF agents, Local & state law-enforcement.

Now, on to "range-master" etc. If you are shooting on private property you must comply with the rules/wishes of said property owner/manager. Therefore, they have the "authority" to request to see your paperwork. You, however, have the right to refuse. If you refuse, at most, they have authority to tell you to leave. If you refuse to leave they can call the LEO to have you trespassed...

i agree. my understanding of the state law is MGs, silencers, etc are illegal, unless properly registered. It puts the burdon of proof on you to show the firearm meets the exception.... you have to prove it's registered, they don't have to prove it isn't. I wouldn't hesitate to show paperwork (I have both photocopies and scanned pdf versions on my ipad) to any level of law enforcement.

I would most likely allow a range officer/owner to see the forms. It's strange and new and scray to many folks, and most of the time they are just asking because they don't want to risk bad attention to their range ("Next at 11, local range haven for illegal gun use"). But I would never allow someone to photo copy, record the information, etc.

oh, and I've never been asked to show the paperwork, other than by someone curious about the process, but I'm seldom on public ranges....

-rvb

 

[nbunga]

I'm pretty sure Obama can request to see your paperwork too. When the great leader asks you shall comply.

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

i agree. my understanding of the state law is MGs, silencers, etc are illegal, unless properly registered.

IC 35-47-5-10

(7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine
guns under applicable United States statutes. Such machine
guns must be transferred as provided in this article.

The question is, do they get to assume that you are guilty?

 

[Glock19]

If you send anyone a copy via email the NSA will see it too.

 

[rvb]

IC 35-47-5-10


The question is, do they get to assume that you are guilty?

If we read it in context, that's how I read it:

IC 35-47-5-8
Machine gun
Sec. 8. A person who owns or possesses a machine gun commits a Class C felony.
IC 35-47-5-9
Operating loaded machine gun
Sec. 9. A person who operates a loaded machine gun commits a Class B felony.

C 35-47-5-10
Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not be construed to apply to any of the following:
...
(7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine guns under applicable United States statutes.

So if they prove you have a MG, then the burden of proof shifts to you to prove you meet one of the exceptions, in this case that it meets US statutes. Where I am wrong is that it seems to be this way for MGs only. It doesn't seem silencers or SBRs are illegal per IN IC. I must have been confused w/ the MD laws (where I used to live) for those items.

So you could make the argument that there is no reason to show your forms to local/state LEO (just ATF) for silencers and SBRs, since they don't seem to be illegal in IN (my search turned up empty). But for MGs, if you can't show you've followed all fed statutes, you're looking at a felony. (I would still be willing to show the forms to a local LEO, seems like a no-big-deal issue to me...)

All my 2c. .. not a lawyer, etc etc.

-rvb

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

Yeah, but if you read subsection 8 of IC 35-47-5-10 :


(8) Persons lawfully engaged in the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device for the sole purpose of industrial, agricultural, mining, construction, educational, or any other lawful use.

Which means as long as you have some substance or material with you (cotton in your socks for example) and you are using the material for a lawful purpose (wearing socks) then you aren't required (at least under Indiana law) to have it registered.

 

[t1545jh]

I took my new M11/9 out to a friends house A couple weeks ago. We shot maybe 200 rounds before the local law enforcement showed up. They said they had over 15 calls for automatic gun fire in the 20 minutes we were shooting. They were actually pretty cool about it. Just wanted to make sure we were outside the city limits and we were shooting into a backstop. The funny thing is, they never asked to see the gun or the paperwork? I did notice they were wearing their bulletproof vests though! Lol

 

[VUPDblue]

I took my new M11/9 out to a friends house A couple weeks ago. We shot maybe 200 rounds before the local law enforcement showed up. They said they had over 15 calls for automatic gun fire in the 20 minutes we were shooting. They were actually pretty cool about it. Just wanted to make sure we were outside the city limits and we were shooting into a backstop. The funny thing is, they never asked to see the gun or the paperwork? I did notice they were wearing their bulletproof vests though! Lol

Really? That's "lol" worthy? I am pretty sure that most if not all police departments require their uniform officers to wear body armor at all times while on duty.

 

[t1545jh]

Really? That's "lol" worthy? I am pretty sure that most if not all police departments require their uniform officers to wear body armor at all times while on duty.

Thats the great thing about America, I can choose to think anything is funny, even when others don't agree! By the way, its a very small town with 2 officers and they weren't in uniform!

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

I took my new M11/9 out to a friends house A couple weeks ago. We shot maybe 200 rounds before the local law enforcement showed up. They said they had over 15 calls for automatic gun fire in the 20 minutes we were shooting. They were actually pretty cool about it. Just wanted to make sure we were outside the city limits and we were shooting into a backstop. The funny thing is, they never asked to see the gun or the paperwork? I did notice they were wearing their bulletproof vests though! Lol

Did they actually realize it was a machine gun? Someone pulling the trigger on a semi auto in rapid succession sounds like automatic gunfire to an average person. Maybe they cops just assumed that the callers were using incorrect terminology and that you didn't have a machine gun?

If they did realize it, good for them for not conducting an unlawful search.

 

[zepan]

Tagged for interest

 

[ryknoll3]

Really? That's "lol" worthy? I am pretty sure that most if not all police departments require their uniform officers to wear body armor at all times while on duty.

Also, isn't there something with Federal LEO grant money that requires departments to have a always-on vest policy?