Have you ever been treated for an emotional illness?

[JenTheGeek]

I just applied for my LTCH online and they asked about being treated for an psychiatric, emotional or mental illness.

I had mild post-partum depression after having my son 3 years ago, so technically the answer to that question was "yes", but UGH, that's embarrassing. Will anyone else admit to answering "yes" to this question - and did you have any trouble with your permit?

I'm going to have to submit docs from my counselor saying that she thinks it's ok for me carry, and I'm certain that won't be a problem... Lovely that I have to admit this... but I guess I see why they ask.

 

[actaeon277]

I would have to re-read the exact wording of the question.
I am not a lawyer, but my advice is...
Do not lie on the application. Better to have to explain, then to have to explain it when they find it.

 

[JenTheGeek]

Nope, didn't lie. Not looking forward to dealing with the paperwork, but better to do a little now then have to do a LOT later.

 

[88GT]

I just applied for my LTCH online and they asked about being treated for an psychiatric, emotional or mental illness.

I had mild post-partum depression after having my son 3 years ago, so technically the answer to that question was "yes", but UGH, that's embarrassing. Will anyone else admit to answering "yes" to this question - and did you have any trouble with your permit?

I'm going to have to submit docs from my counselor saying that she thinks it's ok for me carry, and I'm certain that won't be a problem... Lovely that I have to admit this... but I guess I see why they ask.

There have been a few other threads on this topic (if you can find them). I don't think anybody had any problem with your "run of the mill" depression or PPD treatments on their record.

On the flip side, and one thread dealt with this particular catch-22 in depth, one could argue that there should never be a reason/means for the powers that be to find out about these inconsequential mood disorders; therefore, omission would be something that only you and your doctor knew.

Of course, nobody wants to be that test case, so the safe answer is always be truthful and forthcoming.

Two side comments: First, don't be embarrassed about the PPD. I'd had severe cases with both of my boys. Like the kind that gets me labeled unfit mother by ignorant asshats severe. Throw you baby out the window kind of crap. (No, I never did it.) There are far more women who have it than know it or will admit it. Tom Cruise can rot in hell.

Second, they must have changed the wording because when I applied for my lifetime, the mental question was limited to "adjudicated." Not just "treated." Which means a court of law would have to be involved. They really need to go back to the original language on this. Treatment for mood disorders is far too common place--not to mention completely unrelated to propensity for violence.

 

[OkieGirl]

Sorry to stir this back up, but I've been out and didn't see this till today...

I don't know exactly what the courts would consider "treated for an emotional illness" and yes I have my LTCH. I work in healthcare so I probably pay attention to diagnosis more so than the average gal. While going through a very rocky divorce I mentioned to my doctor some of the emotional ups and downs. I recently changed insurance carriers and therefore change primary care docs and found out that I had been diagnosed with depression??? I never had the benefit of pharmaceutical intervention in my depression (bummer) and answered "no" on my application. If only I had know about my "condition" I could have answered correctly. Fundamentally, I think you have to be honest in any disclosure for the app. It's their way of covering the legalities in case someone truly disturbed is trying to obtain a permit...although I have no idea why that person would go through the trouble of applying.

 

[JenTheGeek]

I plan on calling my doc Monday to try and get the paperwork and keep going over and over what to say in my mind. If she, for some reason, is very anti-gun and ends up saying "I don't think you need to have that license" - then what? That'd be overstepping her professional bounds, but what would I do about it?

The main reason I want the LTCH is to make it more convenient for me to go to and from the range. There is already a gun in our household, so it isn't like refusing the paperwork would prevent me from getting one... gah, it is stupid that I'm over-thinking this so much.

I'm normally very frank about having had PPD with friends and especially other mothers - it is common and nothing to be ashamed of. The embarrassing part, to me, was being asked that so point-blank and having to check yes in that box and be labelled as one of "those people". To me PPD is nowhere near the same category as having severe schizophrenia or something like that, but anyone processing that application wouldn't know my particular brand of 'crazy' and I hate that I feel like I have to justify myself and make excuses just so I can get my LTCH.

 

[88GT]

I plan on calling my doc Monday to try and get the paperwork and keep going over and over what to say in my mind. If she, for some reason, is very anti-gun and ends up saying "I don't think you need to have that license" - then what? That'd be overstepping her professional bounds, but what would I do about it?

Find a new doc.

 

[Mackey]

I plan on calling my doc Monday to try and get the paperwork and keep going over and over what to say in my mind. If she, for some reason, is very anti-gun and ends up saying "I don't think you need to have that license" - then what? That'd be overstepping her professional bounds, but what would I do about it?

The main reason I want the LTCH is to make it more convenient for me to go to and from the range. There is already a gun in our household, so it isn't like refusing the paperwork would prevent me from getting one... gah, it is stupid that I'm over-thinking this so much.

I'm normally very frank about having had PPD with friends and especially other mothers - it is common and nothing to be ashamed of. The embarrassing part, to me, was being asked that so point-blank and having to check yes in that box and be labelled as one of "those people". To me PPD is nowhere near the same category as having severe schizophrenia or something like that, but anyone processing that application wouldn't know my particular brand of 'crazy' and I hate that I feel like I have to justify myself and make excuses just so I can get my LTCH.

I do have a little advice for you.
When anyone asks you why you want a LTCH, your reply should be short and to the point ....
"for personal protection."
Then stop talking or writing. Do not go into details about what you think, might, could happen or discuss things that you are afraid of.

 

[Ljungman]

Ok, i sympathize. Im a guy, a Nurse, and I work in the Psych field in a local hospital. Let me frist say..im sorry you had to divulge private, and personal info (on a whole different level. Let me continue to state..i know the reason they ask this question...let me put this out there.
Had a patient (no more detail needed..Hippa and all that) who I had chance to work with that was very ill. Had no business being alone on the streets, or in public. A License to carry, .45 cal taurus purse gun, and 38 spcl revolver were found on this person.....Im all for the 2nd amendment...but folks with severe mental illness and firearms...not good. You never know when the pink bunny will **** off the local mentally ill person...you might just look like that bunny...
I do sympathize for you in this matter...but remember..they only want to know that they (themselves, you or me) arent going to be that pink bunny.
P.S. I hope your treatment was successful and you/baby are doing well.

 

[JenTheGeek]

Wow Ljungman - yes, I totally understand why they ask. I wouldn't want to be the bunny... but I'm assuming this person either got a lifetime LTCH before any treatment or they lied on the app? There aren't too many ways for the "powers that be" to actually find out about that because of HIPPA stuff.

BTW - my appointment to talk to my doc and get the paperwork is Monday. She didn't express anything that made me think she wasn't fine with it, so that's great!

Is there a specific form they need to fill out - or just a general "This person has not been diagnosed with anything that would disqualify them from carrying a firearm" type generic letter?

 

[Bunnykid68]

I have to disagree with why they are asking. They should not being asking any questions about anything at all, as in, we shouldnt need the damn license to begin with.

I will never understand this kind of thought process.

 

[OkieGirl]

I am nearly certain that the 6 shooting victims and 1 fatality on 21st and Girl School Rd. in Indy this morning weren't licensed to carry but they had no problem qualifying for the list of shooting victims...

Hum, guess you don't need an application for that.

 

[catielynnb]

Second, they must have changed the wording because when I applied for my lifetime, the mental question was limited to "adjudicated." Not just "treated." Which means a court of law would have to be involved. They really need to go back to the original language on this. Treatment for mood disorders is far too common place--not to mention completely unrelated to propensity for violence.

Does this mean that I should have technically checked that box? (I have it on my side of the river too...) Seeing as I am diagnosed with ADD/ADHD ... That makes me wonder. Nothing was ever said about it, and I ended up getting my license on time...

But now that I think about it, I think it states 'adjudicated as a mental defective'

In theory if I lived on the IN side, would I have to check the box?

I have to disagree with why they are asking. They should not being asking any questions about anything at all, as in, we shouldnt need the damn license to begin with.

I will never understand this kind of thought process.

You get reps.

 

[Double T]

Actually, the regulation means being directly under care for a disorder ie: inpatient. If you haven't then the answer should be no.

 

[Cat-Herder]

Unless your "emotional illness" was documented in a court proceeding or police record, there is no mechanism for them to "verify" or "check" if what you have marked down is true or not. So, basically, the question is there to trip people up. If you give them any reason to deny your application, they will do so.
Technically, any of our service members with PTSD could be denied on these grounds....forever.

 

[Cat-Herder]

They should not being asking any questions about anything at all, as in, we shouldnt need the damn license to begin with.

^^^^this^^^^^

 

[cobber]

From the online application

Have you ever been treated for psychiatric
health care or an emotional or mental illness? YesNo a. Year of recent treatment: b. Submit documentation/recommendation from treating mental health professional or treatment center.

Here's the black letter:

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44.1-3-1 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-78), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application;
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;
(11) has not been involuntarily committed, other than a temporary commitment for observation or evaluation, to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority;
(12) has not been the subject of a:
(A) ninety (90) day commitment as a result of proceeding under IC 12-26-6; or
(B) regular commitment under IC 12-26-7; or
(13) has not been found by a court to be mentally incompetent, including being found:
(A) not guilty by reason of insanity;
(B) guilty but mentally ill; or
(C) incompetent to stand trial.

Sounds like they are using (6) to shoehorn in all sorts of things.

But the question on the application doesn't really address ## 6, 11, 12, or 13.

 

[JenTheGeek]

A bit of an update -
I talked to my doc, and she seemed fine with it. I was totally expecting a little pushback, and she did say "why do you feel like you need a gun?" to which I explained that I already own one, I enjoy going to the range, and I just want the convenience of a LTCH. She wrote me a very simple note, on her prescription pad, that said something along the lines of "I treated her, her condition is stable, and there is nothing that would disqualify her from getting a license."

I submitted my application shortly after posting this... STILL haven't gotten my LTCH in the mail. Does it take longer when you answer "yes"? This seems like a loooong time. I run to the mailbox every day after work thinking "maybe today will be the day!". Heh

 

[Dead Duck]

Been looking for an update on this.
Great to hear that you're [STRIKE]not nuts[/STRIKE] cleared for the LTCH.

You'll be shooting Pink Bunnies in no time.


BTW - Bunnykid68 is kind pinkish with his clothes off......so I hear.

 

[zenbruno]

Unless your "emotional illness" was documented in a court proceeding or police record, there is no mechanism for them to "verify" or "check" if what you have marked down is true or not. So, basically, the question is there to trip people up. If you give them any reason to deny your application, they will do so.
Technically, any of our service members with PTSD could be denied on these grounds....forever.

This is the essence of the issue, above.



OP, in your case, unfortunately, you've essentially volunteered to the state pages from your personal diary - pages that are of concern only to you and your chosen mental health professional.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor a mental health professional.