Healthcare is not a right

[Leadeye]

I would imagine that if CA dives in to this and it doesn't work, federal money will cover the difference. Then they can point to it and say, "see it works". No different than the green energy scams.

Connected parties will get rich off of this as they always do.

Always follow the money

 

[mmpsteve]

I covered this topic already, in a clear and consice format; but in case you missed it:

This whole subject is rather ... mehh. The only true futball is college futball; more specifically SEC futball; more specifically Alabama Crimson Tide futball. Aand I du believe they visited with President Trump, as gentlemun and warrior athletes. Any of you who doubt my credibilitiez, I suggest you visit the Wild Turkry first, before cryin fowl.

Wait. I take that back. As a Vikings fan. Purple is most definitely NOT for *******.

 

[jamil]

I covered this topic already, in a clear and consice format; but in case you missed it:

This whole subject is rather ... mehh. The only true futball is college futball; more specifically SEC futball; more specifically Alabama Crimson Tide futball. Aand I du believe they visited with President Trump, as gentlemun and warrior athletes. Any of you who doubt my credibilitiez, I suggest you visit the Wild Turkry first, before cryin fowl.

Well. Maybe Alabama plays futball.

But anyway, the general language you used sounds a lot like a religion.

 

[BugI02]

I covered this topic already, in a clear and consice format; but in case you missed it:

This whole subject is rather ... mehh. The only true futball is college futball; more specifically SEC futball; more specifically Alabama Crimson Tide futball. Aand I du believe they visited with President Trump, as gentlemun and warrior athletes. Any of you who doubt my credibilitiez, I suggest you visit the Wild Turkry first, before cryin fowl.

So what about in the 2015 Sugar Bowl? Was that true futball?

Go Bucks

 

[jamil]

So what about in the 2015 Sugar Bowl? Was that true futball?

Go Bucks

Yeah, but wasn’t that remnants of the pro team Tressel put together before he was ousted for NCAA violations?

 

[mmpsteve]

2015, ancient history. It was a very sad day though. We were all like. Wait ...what? Yes, exactly what Mr. J said above.

So what about in the 2015 Sugar Bowl? Was that true futball?

Go Bucks

 

[Libertarian01]

One of the biggest problems in the health care debate is asking people, "What do you expect the health care system to do for a sick/injured person?"

We all have slightly different answers to this, and to a degree we are all hypocrites when answering. Most of us want heroic means used to treat our loved ones, but we begin to falter for other people. It is one thing to tell someone else they need to "let go" but for me? Me, I want my loved one saved - so long as I believe they could live a good life. Of course there are some people that are more accepting of death than others, and most folks (though not all) are will to let their 96 year old grandparent pass quietly on their Xth event.

We simply cannot afford to use heroic means to save everyone. That would bankrupt us so fast it wouldn't be funny. So there is already rationing by the health care system, the health insurance system, and the government. But when we discuss and debate the system our view of just who should be helped and how much help they should get begins to vary.

There are many excellent hospitals, but there is only ONE Mayo Clinic or Johns Hopkins Hospital. Why don't we expect EVERY hospital to be as good as they are? We know that is unrealistic.

Often times health care treatment is like a bell curve. You can get a really good return out of it by putting in X dollars, but for every dollar after that the return, while improving, does drop off to a nearly negligible level. We want the best, but we simply cannot afford the best, so where we settle is a debatable topic. Say for example I don't feel well. I try to take off from work, rest, eat right, use over the counter meds, etc. But after six (6) days I'm still not feeling good and I feel a little worse. So I go to the doctor. He examines me and says he thinks I have a nasty upper respiratory infection. If its questionable he may(?) order an X-ray if he thinks it may be something else. Ok, fine. I get a prescription and go home hoping this works. What he doesn't do is draw blood and run a full culture to try to figure out what is causing my illness? This is because it would be ridiculous to do so as the vast majority of time it would be entirely unnecessary and wasteful. But it would be more thorough and might save a few lives here and there. As for me I'm willing to take the risk.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Indyal]

IIRC, around 1995 a Rand study indicated most Americans wanted a national health insurance program but when asked how much in taxes they would pay, the average was $50 annually and the highest was around $250.
i think what most Americans mean when they say they want national health care is that they want “free” health care.
No matter how it is covered, health care is a service that is provided. Remember, “Good, fast, cheap, you can only pick two.”

 

[jamil]

IIRC, around 1995 a Rand study indicated most Americans wanted a national health insurance program but when asked how much in taxes they would pay, the average was $50 annually and the highest was around $250.
i think what most Americans mean when they say they want national health care is that they want “free” health care.
No matter how it is covered, health care is a service that is provided. Remember, “Good, fast, cheap, you can only pick two.”

Yeah, pretty much what they want is Alponian free healthcare, that is, for people in higher tax brackets to pay for it.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Got accused of rape tonight at work. For asking for a urine sample under direct observation.

what a system we have. Can’t just call people out unless you're The patient

 

[KellyinAvon]

Got accused of rape tonight at work. For asking for a urine sample under direct observation.

what a system we have. Can’t just call people out unless you're The patient

That's a urinalysis monitor, not a rapist. I can't come up with anything funny, that is all.

 

[jamil]

Got accused of rape tonight at work. For asking for a urine sample under direct observation.

what a system we have. Can’t just call people out unless you're The patient

Oh, so you wanted to watch someone pee? Is that what I'm reading?

 

[hoosierdoc]

No, I wanted a cath urine sample. She refused so I offered to let her pee under observation instead. Some people pee and then put blood into it. When you tell them you need a diff sample it usually gets interesting

 

[HoughMade]

That's a glamorous life you live there, Doc.

 

[Alpo]

Yeah, pretty much what they want is Alponian free healthcare, that is, for people in higher tax brackets to pay for it.

Alponia? Is that a country?

Does your dog bite?

 

[jamil]

Alponia? Is that a country?

Does your dog bite?

He’s gotten nippy in his old age. A few years ago he had a grapefruit size tumor removed from his chest. $800. Alponian dog healthcare would have been “free”, except it would cost me $800 out of each paycheck to help cover everyone else’s dog.

 

[zippy23]

Here is how we know Health care is not a right. I've always felt this way, and one time i saw rand paul talk about it. I'm not a huge rand paul guy but his little talk on this was exactly what i think. Do you have the right to force another human being to do something for you? Do you have the "right" to force a person to make stuff, force a doctor to use that stuff to make you healthier? The answer is absolutely not. Therefore its not a right. Thats why money is a great thing. People will do it for money. People wont do it just because you tell them to. Do you have the right to take your car to the shop and force the guy to fix it? NO. Get a hair cut? NO. its painfully obvious, but the the selfish and lazy left wing voter, it sounds great and you dont have to think. Therefore they latch onto it and tell you that you want everyone to die and are a horrible person. Its so obvious how this goes.

 

[jamil]

Reminds me. It’s about time for my semiannual hair cut.

 

[Alpo]

All three of them?

 

[Libertarian01]

Here is how we know Health care is not a right. I've always felt this way, and one time i saw rand paul talk about it. I'm not a huge rand paul guy but his little talk on this was exactly what i think. Do you have the right to force another human being to do something for you? Do you have the "right" to force a person to make stuff, force a doctor to use that stuff to make you healthier? The answer is absolutely not. Therefore its not a right. Thats why money is a great thing. People will do it for money. People wont do it just because you tell them to. Do you have the right to take your car to the shop and force the guy to fix it? NO. Get a hair cut? NO. its painfully obvious, but the the selfish and lazy left wing voter, it sounds great and you dont have to think. Therefore they latch onto it and tell you that you want everyone to die and are a horrible person. Its so obvious how this goes.

The question isn't necessarily whether or not an "individual human being" can be forced to do something for you, but whether a "business" can be forced to do something.

Think of the difference this way. An individual human being is walking down the street and sees a person who has been injured by a dragon attack in their front yard. The dragon has flown off, so the area is safe. Can the individual human being be "forced" to help. Answer = NO. However, say an ambulance is driving by, on the clock, on duty, simply repositioning itself, and sees the victim of the dragon attack lying in their front yard. Can the business employees be forced to render medical aid? Answer = YES! This can enforced either by A) their contract with the city, or B) a law passed by the state forcing them to render medical aid.

The state can force certain rules to be applied all the time, and it does. Can a restaurant be forced to keep out mice and thus serve the public by maintaining a sanitary environment? Answer = 100% absolutely. Don't want to have to clean your kitchen? Answer = Don't open your kitchen as a business.

Don't like a certain religious group? Great. Don't go into business where the State can force you to serve everyone equally.

Healthcare doesn't have to be a "right" to force a healthcare provider to provide service.

All that said I will restate that I don't believe healthcare should be compelled to serve anyone. To do so continues to promulgate the mindset that personal responsibility is unnecessary due to any lack of negative repercussions for not having the ability to pay. This mindset undermines the economy and our financial strength. This weakening of our economy undermines us in national defense, infrastructure, law enforcement, everywhere!

When our citizens are forced to make a choice between healthcare service and no healthcare service they will work toward their ability to getting healthcare service. The problem exists due to our receiving service without paying for it.

I have a friend who cannot afford health insurance. His income is too low. Last year he had a massive heart attack. The hospital wound up writing off over $300k in bills for him. My issue on the health providers side is that I'm betting it cost them NOWHERE NEAR $300k in costs, yet that is what he was billed, and that is what they will report in losses, and "free" benefits to the community. If we were able to sick an accountant on them and do a full audit of all of their true costs for my friend, I would bet it didn't cost them more than $100k, and probably much (20%+) less than that. The healthcare providers play games and inflate their costs massively, and spend wastefully just to maintain "nonprofit" status in many cases.

One game they play is to make many departments separate companies within the same building. Thus, a patient taken from their room (business A) to radiology (business B) two floors down. Now, radiology (business B) can charge for their services AND possibly an admittance fee, and when the patient is returned to their room (business A) they are now charged a "re-admittance fee! Everyone winds up blaming the insurance companies as evil toadies but sometimes their fights are legitimate.

Note that I almost never (save in individual cases) attack the doctors, nurses, and healthcare providers. They are paid well as they should be due to their skills, training, and service. I always attack the bureaucracy, the waste, the mismanagement. Most healthcare providers could run on about 10 - 15% of the nonmedical staff if we could do away with many of the regulations, waste, and nonsense. I know a guy who is getting a f@#$^*g degree in healthcare billing!?!? How many other businesses need a degree to bill their clients? Accountants? Nope. Lawyers? Nope. Do you bill the client for six (6) minutes, or 15 minutes? Do you have court costs? There are things you need but NOT a degree.

I had to go for a blood draw last Sunday. The lab had an accident, so I had to do a redraw. I went to Parkview Hospital on Randallia for my redraw. It took me over 20 minutes to get processed in. I know, I timed it. Once I made it back to the lab? Go into room #1. Draw took less than two (2) minutes, and it wouldn't have taken that bloody long except they had to go through the paperwork and ask me my full name in date of birth again. Rules...

There will never be an answer to this question that everyone can agree with. But we should be able to come up with an answer that is a helluva lot more affordable and that everyone can live with without breaking our economy.

Regards,

Doug