Held at gunpoint?

[KW730]

A recent discussion on here made we wonder about this. I understand you only point your weapon in fear of your life or those around you. Hypothetically, a man comes in with a firearm, not pointing it at anyone, and attempts to rob the business you are in. After taking cover and drawing down on him, he follows commands to drop the weapon and get on the ground. He is now disarmed. Are you still legal to keep him at gunpoint? I understand you can't fire on him if he decides to run, but what if he stays there?

 

[Mrkeller]

I have read stories of people holding criminals at gun point and not getting in any kind of trouble. But as for it being legal, I'm not sure.

 

[GMtoblat]

Where is his weapon after he's disarmed? and, is he bound? if still attainable and no then yes.

 

[KW730]

Where is his weapon after he's disarmed? and, is he bound? if still attainable and no then yes.

His weapon is out of reach but seeing as I don't carry restraints and I'm assuming most don't, he is unbound.

 

[GMtoblat]

His weapon is out of reach but seeing as I don't carry restraints and I'm assuming most don't, he is unbound.

then i would definately have a bead on him.

 

[CitiusFortius]

His weapon is out of reach.

That you know of...he could have a secondary firearm IWB, or knives., or his fists. The one gun doesnt mean that the whole threat is neutralized.

Keep your gun on him and keep your distance. Be prepared to be thrown on the ground when police arrive and treated as a suspect until things get sorted out.

 

[AndersonIN]

That you know of...he could have a secondary firearm IWB, or knives., or his fists. The one gun doesnt mean that the whole threat is neutralized.

Keep your gun on him and keep your distance. Be prepared to be thrown on the ground when police arrive and treated as a suspect until things get sorted out.

NOT NECESSARY!!!!
I would perform the INTELLIGENT SAFE LEO process of taking his ONLY weapon and unloading it, breaking it down, unloading the mag. and putting it all into a plastic bag and then put it in the trunk of his car. THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL EVERYTHING BE SAFE!!!! Then I inform them not to commit any further felonies until the police arrive. I then proceed on about my business SAFE and SOUND!

 

[Nmathew24]

Could you not place them under citizens arrest?

 

[chezuki]

Could you not place them under citizens arrest?

^This.

Any person
Sec. 4. (a) Any person may arrest any other person if:
(1) the other person committed a felony in his presence;
(2) a felony has been committed and he has probable cause to believe that the other person has committed that felony; or
(3) a misdemeanor involving a breach of peace is being committed in his presence and the arrest is necessary to prevent the continuance of the breach of peace.
(b) A person making an arrest under this section shall, as soon as practical, notify a law enforcement officer and deliver custody of the person arrested to a law enforcement officer.
(c) The law enforcement officer may process the arrested person as if the officer had arrested him. The officer who receives or processes a person arrested by another under this section is not liable for false arrest or false imprisonment.
As added by Acts 1981, P.L.298, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1982, P.L.204, SEC.7.

 

[KW730]

Could you not place them under citizens arrest?

Technically, after giving them commands to drop the weapon and get on the ground they are under citizens arrest.
I agree to keep the firearm on them I was just curious about the legality.

Would any of you attempt to hold them in this situation? Would you retreat to safety? Would you fire without issuing commands? I'm curious if it is even a smart thing to attempt to apprehend them.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Technically, after giving them commands to drop the weapon and get on the ground they are under citizens arrest.
I agree to keep the firearm on them I was just curious about the legality.

Would any of you attempt to hold them in this situation? Would you retreat to safety? Would you fire without issuing commands? I'm curious if it is even a smart thing to attempt to apprehend them.

Unless you have training, armed backup and restraints, I would highly advise you keep your distance and simply keep the guy at gunpoint. You'd be surprised how fast the tables can turn when trying to put bracelets on a guy

 

[KW730]

Unless you have training, armed backup and restraints, I would highly advise you keep your distance and simply keep the guy at gunpoint. You'd be surprised how fast the tables can turn when trying to put bracelets on a guy

I didn't mean to actually go hands on, which I would never do. I meant if it's even wise to try and keep them for officers or just draw and tell them to get the **** out.

 

[Captain Bligh]

I won't speak to what is legal as for holding someone, but I'd hope to never get in this situation in the first place. I would draw on someone to protect my life, not to protect some stores assets. I'd offer the thief the front door, not try to hold him. I am not a cop and don't want their job. I'd just like to make sure I survive.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Legally justified.

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.

Then, let's look at 35-41-3-3, as it applies to the situation you describe:

IC 35-41-3-3
Use of force relating to arrest or escape
Sec. 3. (a) A person other than a law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force against another person to effect an arrest or prevent the other person's escape if:
(1) a felony has been committed; and
(2) there is probable cause to believe the other person committed that felony.
However, such a person is not justified in using deadly force unless that force is justified under section 2 of this chapter.


Remember that the responding officers may not know who the good guy is and be prepared to immediately comply with any orders of the responding officers. Keep in mind that the officer is getting his information 3rd hand (caller tells dispatch, dispatch tells the officer) and if he's responding to an armed robbery he may not know an armed citizen has intervened and controlled the situation.

 

[KW730]

Thanks for citing the code BehindBlueI's. I am well aware that I will be treated as a suspect upon arrival of LEO.

 

[Fieldpiece]

The only order I would give him is stop bleeding on my floor.

 

[Manan]

I won't speak to what is legal as for holding someone, but I'd hope to never get in this situation in the first place. I would draw on someone to protect my life, not to protect some stores assets. I'd offer the thief the front door, not try to hold him. I am not a cop and don't want their job. I'd just like to make sure I survive.

EXACTLY. Agree....Agree.....Agree. I am not a cop anymore, You are not a cop. I carry for self protection, family protection and the protection of the lives of those that are around me. I don't stop crimes in progress unless someones life is in jeopardy.....Period.

 

[gloxrok]

+1 for manan's comment. unless there is immediate threat to life, i would never draw on someone.

 

[mtomaro]

If you are in fear of your life you should use it. That being said, assuming he's not directly threatening anyone or pointing it and just looking for a quick buck, it might be best to just let him take the money. Not to sound like a ***** but the minute you draw your weapon you're going to be the one escalating the situation to a firefight. No doubt if you are going to carry, you need to be mentally prepared to use it, however sometimes its best not to. Every situation is different and until you're there you'll never know.

 

[Captain Bligh]

I obviously agree with Manan, gloxrok, and mtormaro. I am under no obligation to protect the general public or store owners' assets. Here is a related thing to discuss. Joe Storeowner had the same opportunity his LTCH customer did to make a personal decision about whether to get a LTCH to protect himself, his business, or his staff. Assuming he chose not to do so, why does it become a LTCH holder's place to protect Joe Storeowner or his cash if the LTCH holder does not feel his own life or that of his family is in danger?

As for me, I have no interest in being a hero, only a survivor.