Help! 9mm not ejecting

[EODThree]

If that was the case, there would never be a failure to extract.

If you insist that the extractor pulls the cartridge case out of the chamber, explain to me what causes the slide to move to the rear.

 

[chizzle]

Scientific test: remove your extractor, then shoot your 1911. If EODthree is right, the brass should be pulled out of the chamber, but may stove pipe. If lilratt is right, it should be hung up in the chamber.

 

[Litlratt]

If you insist that the extractor pulls the cartridge case out of the chamber, explain to me what causes the slide to move to the rear.

I understand what you're getting at, we're talking recoil operated.

 

[Litlratt]

Scientific test: remove your extractor, then shoot your 1911. If EODthree is right, the brass should be pulled out of the chamber, but may stove pipe. If lilratt is right, it should be hung up in the chamber.

Kinda, but if EO is right, nothing pulled it out of the chamber.

 

[EODThree]

To the best of my knowledge, all pistols are recoil operated. Some are direct blow-back (the only thing holding the slide is a spring). Others are locked-breech (the barrel and the slide are locked together). In either case, when the cartridge is fired, the case expands to seal the chamber. After the bullet is long gone, the pressure drops allowing the case to slide out of the chamber. In the locked-breech pistol the drop in pressure also allows the barrel/slide lockup mechanism to operate freeing the slide. In both cases, the chamber pressure forces the cartridge case out of the chamber applying force to the breech-face which forces the slide to the rear. The case pushes on the slide until the rim of the case strikes the ejector causing the case to "pivot" on the extractor to fling the case out of the action.

 

[Litlratt]

To the best of my knowledge, all pistols are recoil operated. Some are direct blow-back (the only thing holding the slide is a spring). Others are locked-breech (the barrel and the slide are locked together). In either case, when the cartridge is fired, the case expands to seal the chamber. After the bullet is long gone, the pressure drops allowing the case to slide out of the chamber. In the locked-breech pistol the drop in pressure also allows the barrel/slide lockup mechanism to operate freeing the slide. In both cases, the chamber pressure forces the cartridge case out of the chamber applying force to the breech-face which forces the slide to the rear. The case pushes on the slide until the rim of the case strikes the ejector causing the case to "pivot" on the extractor to fling the case out of the action.

There are gas operated pistols. But for the purposes of this discussion, we are talking about the two different designs, blow back and recoil. I agree that they are both recoil operated.

I disagree, and I believe Newton would too, that "After the bullet is long gone, the pressure drops allowing the case to slide out of the chamber. In the locked-breech pistol the drop in pressure also allows the barrel/slide lockup mechanism to operate freeing the slide. In both cases, the chamber pressure forces the cartridge case out of the chamber applying force to the breech-face which forces the slide to the rear." In your scenario, the bullet has left the barrel, how can there be any chamber pressure? The action of the bullet going forward causes the reaction of the slide going rearward. The action/reaction is delayed in both designs resulting in reduced chamber pressure prior to extraction.

 

[EODThree]

OK, I give up. If you believe I'm incorrect about the operation of a typical pistol, you are welcome to explain how they operate.

 

[Litlratt]

Here are a couple of videos clearly showing the motion of the slide prior to the bullet leaving the barrel. At 2:16 of the second one.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mattrece#p/u/25/T4LT5GG7tC4

Slow-Motion Pistol Mechanics | Verbo.se

 

[bronson3304]

Ok, here is another thought. Could I be seating the bullet to far. Im not going under spec but to the lower end of it. Could that maby cause my ejecting issues?

 

[slow1911s]

Principles of operation

Fired case extraction phase

As shown in fig. 6, fired cartridge case extraction occurs with continued rearward movement of the slide and as the breech begins to open when the barrel links down. The rim of the fired cartridge case is held firmly against the breech face by the extractor as it is drawn back by the energy of the recoiling slide. Continued rearward movement of the slide then fully withdraws and thereby extracts the fired cartridge case from the chamber.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Ok, here is another thought. Could I be seating the bullet to far. Im not going under spec but to the lower end of it. Could that maby cause my ejecting issues?

What is your cartridge OAL?

 

[Litlratt]

Ok, here is another thought. Could I be seating the bullet to far. Im not going under spec but to the lower end of it. Could that maby cause my ejecting issues?

I doubt it. As it relates to ejection, seating the bullet farther into the case will increase chamber pressure.
I would suggest you load one round into a magazine and fire it. What we want to find out is if the slide is locking to the rear. Do this 10 times if it is. Be conscious of where the spent case lands as that info may be helpful.

 

[chizzle]

Kinda, but if EO is right, nothing pulled it out of the chamber.

I know you're right, I just wanted to see if somebody would try it.

 

[bronson3304]

My oal was 1.129. I backed it out to 1.159. The min and max in my book is 1.100 and 1.169. Also I will try firing them 1 at a time and see what happens. Will post the results

 

[XtremeVel]

My oal was 1.129. I backed it out to 1.159. The min and max in my book is 1.100 and 1.169. Also I will try firing them 1 at a time and see what happens. Will post the results

You sure the OAL you cited was for the profile bullet you are using ? .069 just seems like a large range for a RN. Almost seems like that would be closer to the range I would expect for a given bullet weight, not taking into account the profile.

Sometimes when troubleshooting, it's best to change only (1) variable at a time.

If you are currently working your charge up, I don't know if I would be adjusting the OAL that much.

If you are still talking about the same bullet profile ( 115 gr RN ), I have always found a OAL of 1.135 has worked through every firearm I ran them through.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

My OAL varies from 1".120-1".130. That is using 115 FMJ bullets. So far they have functioned properly in all of my pistols.

 

[bronson3304]

My lee book says 1.169 for max oal and 1.100 for min. I was loading 1.129 and working up my charge but they are failing to eject. Some stay in the chamber but most stove pipe. I am now at the max and are about ready to test them. If they don't eject I dot really know what to do from this point.

 

[XtremeVel]

My lee book says 1.169 for max oal and 1.100 for min. I was loading 1.129 and working up my charge but they are failing to eject. Some stay in the chamber but most stove pipe. I am now at the max and are about ready to test them. If they don't eject I dot really know what to do from this point.

I hope this works for you, but I will be shocked if it has anything to do with your OAL. Your initial depth at 1.129 should be fine. Like I said earlier, I always load that bullet at 1.135 and it has ran flawlessly thru at least 8 different guns.

Just how far did you work up that charge from the original 5.2 gr ?

In my Lee manual, I only see a min OAL dimension. Not only that, it also doesn't specify what profile the bullet is. The profile ( shape of bullet ) will make a difference.

As a safety note, if you loaded the OAL to the max dimension, might be a good idea to make sure it drops into chamber correctly. If it doesn't, the slide wont go fully into battery. Also, if you stay at that max OAL dim and work up your charge, do not sling shot back to min OAL dim without backing off that charge. If any doubt, cross reference an additional source paying close attention to the OAL when using your exact profile bullet.

 

[bronson3304]

I'm using acuarate no 2 started at 3.6 and I'm up to 4.5 now. The max load it 4.6. If it still does not enject is it safe to keep going up?

 

[bronson3304]

And the 1.159 cycled thru my pistol when I did it by hand