HELP a gun I sold on Ingo recovered in Chicago used in a Robbery. Need advise.

[mainjet]

Is this just a general thought, or do you think someone has done this?

Posts #10 and #17 seem to indicate that to me.

 

[Slawburger]

To get down to it, I purchased a gun from a buddy in 2010 that was later sold here on INGO https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../94261-wts-kel-tec-p11-priced-move-quick.html. Today my buddy received a card from the ATF stating that the gun was used in crime. He explained to the agent that he sold the the gun to me and he should contact me. The problem is I no longer have the message from 2010. I remember meeting the gentleman at the 1500 checking his ID and LTCH and getting his info. Problem is I cannot find the info or IM. Any one know if the Mods are able to look at deleted pm?? Am I liable for this?? Please spread some knowledge.

Resident of Indiana - Check (Indiana DL)
No reasonable cause to believe buyer is disqualified - Check (LTCH)

IC 35-47-2-7 Version a
Prohibited sales or transfrs of ownership
Note: This version of section effective until 7-1-2014. See also following version of this section, effective 7-1-2014.

Sec. 7.
(a) Except an individual acting within a parent-minor child or guardian-minor protected person relationship or any other
individual who is also acting in compliance with IC 35-47-10, a person may not sell, give, or in any other manner transfer the ownership or possession of a handgun or assault weapon (as defined in IC 35-50-2-11) to any person under eighteen (18) years of age.

(b) It is unlawful for a person to sell, give, or in any manner transfer the ownership or possession of a handgun to another person who the person has reasonable cause to believe:

(1) has been:

(A) convicted of a felony; or

(B) adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person seeking to obtain ownership or possession of the handgun is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;​

(2) is a drug abuser;

(3) is an alcohol abuser; or

(4) is mentally incompetent.
______________________________________________________

If INGO can recover the PM and wishes to do so then I would suggest that they just add it back to your Inbox and you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[Beowulf]

I'd start with IMPD firearms division. I'm not at work right now, but I *think* the number is 327-3474. If that's not correct and they can't help you, PM me so I'll remember and I'll check Monday.

Awesome, thanks!

 

[LoriW]

I smell some bs here.
How would any ATF agent know where to find some one after a firearm purchase in a state that doesn’t register firearms?
Either A: Buddy used to live in a commie state
B: The feds have been lying all along. You really can trace a 4473 form
C: Buddy is yanking your chain

I'm not a law enforcement expert, but I bet they could find out what dealer originally sold the gun based off the serial number and get the buyer's info from that shop. Maybe not, but it makes sense.

it's very simple

serial # is logged by manufacturer.
serial # is logged out to distributor.
serial # is logged out to gun shop
serial # is logged out to buyer.

it is called a trace and is done multiple times per day for crime guns etc.

call it a trace, backdoor registration, whatever. it isn't a covert secret that this is done.

Like MrsG said...it happens. Every so often we get contacted by the ATF and we pull out a 4473 and give them the requested information. Our computerized 4473 system specifically states the information provided is not confidential. I've only had 1 person ask what that meant

 

[printcraft]

dubsac............... whatever you do don't mention our arrangement.................

 

[IndyDave1776]

Nothing wrong with getting a lawyer, but if he'd done so that night we would have lost a critical piece of evidence. Like anything, there are pro's and con's, just be sure you really understand what you're doing when you decide to talk or to not talk.

I would say that the decision hinges largely on whether or not one trusts the police. I would talk to you, but I have had the displeasure of becoming acquainted with my share of police to whom I would issue less trust than I would most common criminals.

 

[cobber]

So what? If someone is using a gun illegally, why wouldn't we (gun owners) want to help law enforcement figure out if the gun had been obtained legally or illegally, especially if we are sure we sold it legally?

Not to paraphrase Hillary, but with respect to the immediate LE concern, why does it matter how the gun was obtained? This is the kind of question the Brady Bunch fixates on. But it focuses on the instrument, and not the actor or his intent. It's a nice factoid to 'justify' background checks of private sales and closing down the "loophole". I'm not sure gun owners should be focusing on it though, with respect to a private sale that may have resulted in a firearm going to a bad guy...

Nothing wrong with getting a lawyer, but if he'd done so that night we would have lost a critical piece of evidence. Like anything, there are pro's and con's, just be sure you really understand what you're doing when you decide to talk or to not talk.

And that's something LE and the DA have to take into account. If they're in too much of a rush to charge, they may find fewer and fewer cooperative witnesses.

 

[SmileDocHill]

3 words. Bill of Sale

I am definitely against registration of firearms, but anyone who thinks that the gov can't figure out who owns guns without a registration is fooling themselves. This website may as well be a registration. How many of you have eagerly shared a pic of your new gun or talked about your collection on here? Registration leads to confiscation, but registration is not required to have confiscation.

Why would they need a full on registration? They have people so afraid of the Gov. by the people that they are keeping the paper trail records for them. Just pointing out the irony of your logic.

Personally, yes I always check the ltch and DL, and my first instinct is that if I have any chance of helping catch a dirt bag and/or bad guy then why not help? The fact that the tool he used once belonged to me doesn't put me in legal peril.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I am definitely against registration of firearms, but anyone who thinks that the gov can't figure out who owns guns without a registration is fooling themselves. This website may as well be a registration. How many of you have eagerly shared a pic of your new gun or talked about your collection on here? Registration leads to confiscation, but registration is not required to have confiscation.

I am surprised somebody that is "definitely against registration of firearms" wants me to give them a Bill of Sale registering a gun.

3 words. Bill of Sale

I will never do a Bill of Sale, PERIOD! I will and do abide by all gun laws, but giving in to ridiculous request is a waste of my time.
If I have a Indiana DL that shows that I am a resident of Indiana
LTCH shows that the State of Indiana has recognized me as a proper person
Bill of Sale shows distrust from seller.

Sellers have the right to set their terms and I have the right to pass on the deal regardless of price.

 

[ilcaveman]

I bought a pistol about 25 years ago from a LGS who had a booth at a gun show. He called me a year ago looking for the person I sold it to, who was my brother who happen to trade it back to the same LGS. He sold it to someone else who committed a crime with it. How did the ATF know I was the original buyer? Hmmmm

 

[Gluemanz28]

Thats an easy one as stated above in other post. BATF does a search by the serial number. They contact the LGS that called the serial number in when you bought the gun. The LGS searched their records and pulled the 4473 that you filled out and gave them your contact info.

If the LGS fails to comply do you think they would have a FFL for very long? As Beretta would say "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" Too bad he didn't follow his own advice.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Posts #10 and #17 seem to indicate that to me.

That's not what I got from those posts.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Thats an easy one as stated above in other post. BATF does a search by the serial number. They contact the LGS that called the serial number in when you bought the gun. The LGS searched their records and pulled the 4473 that you filled out and gave them your contact info.

If the LGS fails to comply do you think they would have a FFL for very long? As Beretta would say "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" Too bad he didn't follow his own advice.

Gun shops don't "call the serial number in"!

 

[Rexmage]

You aren't required to do a background check when you sell a firearm. After someone else buys it, as long as they aren't like giving you a reason to think you shouldn't sell them that's all, you have no more legal requirement in Indiana at least to do anything else. They're probably going to try to scare you and lean on you though.

 

[slowG]

Gun shops don't "call the serial number in"!

Maybe the LGS has a record of the guns they sell. Maybe ATF called and asked who they sold it to.

 

[sig-guy]

A funny turn of events would be for the op to tell the ATF: What the heck you talking about, I never bought a gun from my buddy! Doesn he have a bill of sale?????

Seriously though.........

I see two minds think alike.

 

[sig-guy]

I blame INGO, they made it easy for such a sale to happen.

Forum LoopHole?

 

[sig-guy]

Gun shops don't "call the serial number in"!

Go back a few posts... the manufacture knows where a particular serial number was sold/shipped too (dealer/distributor/etc). They simply follow the sales chain. Think "Log Books".

 

[long coat]

The gun could have been sold a few more times or stolen from the person the OP sold it to.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Regarding cleaning of PM basket, isn't destroying data that you think might be used in an investigation a grey area? If it was done to cleanse an area prior to investigation just seems sketchy.

It sounds like they are just trying to track it down and maybe put the gun in the bad guy's hand through a sale. Other than the headache, I don't see what the possible issue here is.