Here's a head scratcher for you..

[CTS]

So my grandpa is married and he lives in Indiana, but his wife's legal residence is in Michigan as she stays up there to be close to her children from time to time. She wanted to get a handgun to keep for home defense and she doesn't like anything grandpa owns, so they go to the gun store. Now since she doesn't have an Indiana drivers license, he buys the gun to give as a gift to her.

Now here's the question...was he OK giving it to her since she's not an Indiana resident and can she take it home with her to Michigan. Let's not forget that factored in here is the fact that they're legally married and no matter who bought the gun it's marital property so she already had a legal claim of ownership.

I have to admit, I think I know the answer here...but I'm curious what you folks think.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even pretend to play one on INGO

But I say what occurred is perfectly legal.

 

[BumpShadow]

Technically that's a straw purchase. So no, not legal. My wife can't even buy a gun a give it to me, and we are both Indiana residents.

 

[femurphy77]

Technically that's a straw purchase. So no, not legal. My wife can't even buy a gun a give it to me, and we are both Indiana residents.

I'm not sure that this is entirely true. It is my understanding that you can gift a handgun to somebody that is otherwise legally allowed to own one.. Lawyers????

 

[Double T]

Technically that's a straw purchase. So no, not legal. My wife can't even buy a gun a give it to me, and we are both Indiana residents.

This post smells of BS, and it's not just your username. LOL

A straw purchase by definition does not include immediate family to be used as a gift. 100% legal

 

[mrjarrell]

It was a present. Don't see why it wouldn't be legal. We don't have gun registration in Indiana and we have plenty of folks here on INGO who've bought firearms for their significant others and spouses. If it is against some idiotic part of the law, then the law's wrong and shouldn't be obeyed. As far as I know you can still give guns as gifts to anyone who's not prohibited.

 

[CTS]

It was a present. Don't see why it wouldn't be legal. We don't have gun registration in Indiana and we have plenty of folks here on INGO who've bought firearms for their significant others and spouses. If it is against some idiotic part of the law, then the law's wrong and shouldn't be obeyed. As far as I know you can still give guns as gifts to anyone who's not prohibited.

Right, but it's a gift given to a resident of another state. That can change things no?

 

[92ThoStro]

Is the 4473 available to download online? If so look at the part in the back that explains the question about being the buyer. It says that gifting is an exception to a straw purchase. I don't remember if it said anything about being a resident of another state. If it doesn't say you can't, then it's a yes, you can.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Good question. I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking it was legal. But I'm interested in more educated responses than mine.

 

[CTS]

Is the 4473 available to download online? If so look at the part in the back that explains the question about being the buyer. It says that gifting is an exception to a straw purchase. I don't remember if it said anything about being a resident of another state. If it doesn't say you can't, then it's a yes, you can.

The 4473 does not go into that level of detail with regard to the law. It doesn't say you can't go to the next gas station and open fire either, that doesn't mean it isn't illegal.

 

[Bunnykid68]

If the gun resides at her residence in Michigan it was taken there illegally wasn't it? Unless she is just borrowing it.

 

[ryknoll3]

Normally, he'd be perfectly legal to gift her the gun. You can gift a firearm to ANYONE who lives in your state, so long as you have no reason to believe they can't legally own it.

The two different states of residence is a legal gray area I believe. If it were a father-son, and residents of two different states, this would be an illegal transfer unless it went through a dealer in MI. I don't know that there's an exception anywhere in the law for a married couple though. Chances of prosecution are probably slim to none, but I think you'd have to operate on the basis that it is illegal because they are residents of two separate states, unless someone can find an exemption in the federal statute.

 

[CTS]

Normally, he'd be perfectly legal to gift her the gun. You can gift a firearm to ANYONE who lives in your state, so long as you have no reason to believe they can't legally own it.

The two different states of residence is a legal gray area I believe. If it were a father-son, and residents of two different states, this would be an illegal transfer unless it went through a dealer in MI. I don't know that there's an exception anywhere in the law for a married couple though. Chances of prosecution are probably slim to none, but I think you'd have to operate on the basis that it is illegal because they are residents of two separate states, unless someone can find an exemption in the federal statute.

Well aren't all of "MY" firearms, acquired several years into our marriage, also owned by my wife? Is "giving" something to your wife even a transfer of ownership?

 

[ryknoll3]

Here are the applicable Federal statutes:

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

This is the law that says that you can't acquire a firearm from someone in a different state. There are two exceptions that are applicable today. 1. Bequest (someone wills it to you, an inheritance). 2. Acquiring a rifle or shotgun from a DEALER in another state, so long as state laws are observed in both states. This exception is spelled out below.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Given these statutes, I see no exception for this couple's situation, unless it can be argued that she is still a resident of the grandpa's state, despite her driver's license.

 

[1911 mike]

I stayed at the Holiday Inn last night, so I'm qualified to say it "IS NOT" a straw purchase, so it is legal between husband and wife no matter the state.

 

[ryknoll3]

Well aren't all of "MY" firearms, acquired several years into our marriage, also owned by my wife? Is "giving" something to your wife even a transfer of ownership?

Probably not in most matters of criminal law. If you buy a gun illegally, your wife would not also be prosecuted because you're married. If you register a machine gun or other NFA to yourself, your wife is not an owner of that firearm, and in fact is not allowed at any time to have sole custody of that firearm. You must be present. Exception to this would be a trust or corp., but then neither of you own it, but are merely trust or corporate officers.

I believe laws governing "marital property" are different and are not applicable here.

 

[CTS]

Yeah, for the record I told them it could be an issue and the dealer agreed to ship it up to a local FFL just to make sure there's no issue. It's a curious set of circumstances though, I think it would be interesting to see how it would play out legally.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yeah, for the record I told them it could be an issue and the dealer agreed to ship it up to a local FFL just to make sure there's no issue. It's a curious set of circumstances though, I think it would be interesting to see how it would play out legally.

While I agree going through a FFL is probably the safe bet, how would anybody have known had they not? Unless somebody had notified some authority, I don't know that anything would have played out.

 

[CTS]

While I agree going through a FFL is probably the safe bet, how would anybody have known had they not? Unless somebody had notified some authority, I don't know that anything would have played out.

True, best to do what you can to follow the law though when possible.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

True, best to do what you can to follow the law though when possible.

No guts, no glory!