High end ARs-- which is best and why?

[tradertator]

I try not to base my choice purely on price. I ask myself what I want it to do, and try to find what best fits the bill. If your wanting accuracy, LaRue and Noveske are hard to beat. If your wanting rugged, Daniel Defense and LMT are great options. If your wanting specific features, BCM offers a ton of choices. If you want a piston setup (my favorite), you can't beat LWRC. Spikes makes a hell of a nice product, and at a very nice price point. If you want to shoot beer cans in the back yard, go with a budget brand. Building is fine too, but keep in mind you won't save much, loose a lot more if you resell it, and there will be no warranty if something goes wrong. Factory built rifles are tested for things (such as headspacing) that the average Joe building one in his kitchen often doesn't have access to. There is no right choice for every sitution and it's why many guys have multiple firearms setup differently in the same platform.

 

[BCMPatriot]

I'm a BCM guy (duh). I did find this chart the other day breaking down what some of the top companies offered. It's worth checking out. BCM Complete AR15 Upper and Lower Receivers [2010-01-01] - 03DESIGNGROUP

 

[seedubs1]

As more and more companies start releasing supplier information to the public, it's becoming easier and easier to get components that are completely equivalent to the higher end companies at a fraction of the cost.

For example, I can get a mil-spec BCG from a DOD contracted manufacturer that has been re-branded by multiple companies. Some for a fraction of the cost of others.

You just have to research and become an informed buyer.

 

[iChokePeople]

Do "we" believe that "MilSpec" is synonymous with "top quality" or "high end"? That has not been my experience in anything short of tanks and armored fighting vehicles which, to be honest, are difficult to really rank due to lack of competitors (in the US market.)

 

[midget]

Do "we" believe that "MilSpec" is synonymous with "top quality" or "high end"? That has not been my experience in anything short of tanks and armored fighting vehicles which, to be honest, are difficult to really rank due to lack of competitors (in the US market.)

Milspec is normally a minimum level specification. I use several parts in my rifle builds that are not milspec and actually exceed milspec quality by quite a bit.

 

[iChokePeople]

Milspec is normally a minimum level specification. I use several parts in my rifle builds that are not milspec and actually exceed milspec quality by quite a bit.

Agreed. If we're looking for "high end", by the OP's title, saying you can get milspec for less isn't really helpful. High end stuff is frequently milspec, but the reverse is definitely not necessarily true.

 

[BCMPatriot]

The only "milspec" item I care about on my ARs is the size of the buffer tube. Other than that, milspec to me is just like calling the sky blue.

 

[seedubs1]

No. Mil-spec is the minimum standard I base off of. The real answer is that it depends on what your intended use is. In some cases, mil-spec is your best bet because the other companies aren't telling you everything (like the fact that they are using MIM extractors). In other cases, you're better off with non-mil-spec (like a precision build using a WOA barrel and matched BCG).

There's lots of caveats to that statement. For example, I want a BCG that is made by a known gtg DOD contractor that is "mil-specish..." meaning I want a m16 profile, good staking, HPT, MPI, non-MIM gas key/extractor, etc... After that, the mil-spec requirements go away as there's better options to be had. I'd like a 9310 bolt instead of mil-spec c158. I'd also prefer a nitride BCG to a mil-spec phosphate coated BCG. The problem comes with companies that don't specify the details, and that's when known gtg mil-spec comes in handy.

Then, my question goes to: Why is BCM so expensive if it's "only mil spec" for some things, like BCG's? I can get nicer BCG's elsewhere for cheaper, or the same exact BCG with another logo for significantly cheaper. Why are people all drooly because it's got a BCM logo? IIRC, they're made by Micro Best. Why would I pay $170 for a mil-spec Micro Best BCG when I can find it cheaper elsewhere?

Bottom line, as companies are informing their customers, we begin to get smarter. We know what's the same mil-spec parts that are rebranded, and we know what's better or worse. It's a good thing that I can go buy the same component for cheaper just by not caring what logo is on something.

Do "we" believe that "MilSpec" is synonymous with "top quality" or "high end"? That has not been my experience in anything short of tanks and armored fighting vehicles which, to be honest, are difficult to really rank due to lack of competitors (in the US market.)

 

[craigkim]

I've got 2 nuthin special AR platforms (a Windham and a mixmaster I built using a PWA lower). Thinking about shedding them and upgrading to 1 high end gun. Other than handling a Daniel Defense and a few other high end types, I've never fired one. What are folks' thoughts on which of the higher end builds is best and why?

Here would be my list for direct impingement:

Luxury Level - JP, Larue, Noveske, KAC. I personally have 2 Noveske rifles and a JP 15 they are certainly premium and at better than $2600 they should be. JP is my top pick because of their barrels and dissipation system. I also think KAC SR-15 is very interesting because of their innovations, but I didn't buy one because I want fully interchangeable rifles that are AR-15s and minimal proprietary parts.
(Maybe this doesn't count as an AR?) I didn't get a Larue, and have no experience with one, because the lead time is a year. I feel like for good or bad Noveske is a boutique brand. I mean boutique by its definition - fancy and expensive. Their rifles are awesome and very capable though and feel different/special to hold in the hand. Hard to describe.

Premium Level - BCM. I really think BCM is all anyone needs and more. If I could go back, I'd probably go BCM for capability vs. price. I don't think Larue or Noveskes are better for actual use, but they command a higher price and are more exclusive IMO. Daniel Defense. Seems more than capable at more reasonable price and availability.

 

[baddyna96]

I vote Larue all the way. I own 2 of them and they are top notch!

 

[burt gummer]

this is getting good

 

[BCMPatriot]

this is getting good

Right? If only there was an all-knowing source that had the answer.... I'm sure some guys will take this as a call for their expertise haha.

 

[phylodog]

I can get nicer BCG's elsewhere for cheaper, or the same exact BCG with another logo for significantly cheaper. Why are people all drooly because it's got a BCM logo? IIRC, they're made by Micro Best. Why would I pay $170 for a mil-spec Micro Best BCG when I can find it cheaper elsewhere?

Are all Microbest produced BCG's equal? (I'm asking a legitimate question, I don't know the answer). BCM is known for having pretty well defined standards, if they receive a shipment of BCG's from Microbest and refuse them for whatever reason, does Microbest destroy them or sell them since they may be technically "in spec" but not up to BCM standards?

 

[seedubs1]

That's always the question, and we'll never know. I don't know of any companies that use Microbest BCG's that are not GTG, though.

We do know that Microbest produces for a few well known GTG companies that sell them as their own (LMT, Colt, Wilson Combat, and others at one point in time at least). And I've never heard of a company selling Microbest BCG's that were not GTG.

So overall, I'd say Microbest doesn't put out junk. They may make to slightly different specs for one company vs. another, but from everything my research has shown is that they're all GTG, and we'll never know if there's a small difference.

If it's a Microbest BCG that's individually HPT/MPI and full auto profile and mil-spec, I'd be 100% confident in it.

Are all Microbest produced BCG's equal? (I'm asking a legitimate question, I don't know the answer). BCM is known for having pretty well defined standards, if they receive a shipment of BCG's from Microbest and refuse them for whatever reason, does Microbest destroy them or sell them since they may be technically "in spec" but not up to BCM standards?

 

[phylodog]

It's been several years since I paid attention to who was making what for whom so my info is outdated. Thanks for the reply.

 

[winchester]

PWA PacWestArms. lewis of LMT is half of the original partners in PWA, rock river is the other???. i also have one and i think its a good base to a rifle. at the time i bought it (early 90's) its was one of the best fit and finish available imo.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Do you want a nice pretty rifle, or a tool?

 

[burt gummer]

who knows the shadow knows lol, this questions will never be answered. its like the energizer bunny, how about this get about $2,500 and go buy a black rain AR or lwcr AR-15, they are expensive so they are the best

 

[M67]

Do you want a nice pretty rifle, or a tool?

Who says a hard use tool can't be pretty? Or at least start out that way

 

[Fallschirmjaeger]

Do you want a nice pretty rifle, or a tool?

Im the OP and really appreciate all the responses. I hope it isn't a copout to answer that, to me, firearms ought to be used and enjoyed. And of course firearms that have a practical use (defense, target shooting, etc.) will be a tool by definition. But I appreciate that it's possible to have pretty nice tools, too. I have a really nice HK93 that a lot of people would probably like to have for a collector item, but I like to take it to the range even as I appreciate that it's a really nice rifle. Likewise I fire my GI 1911 and 1911a1s, which a lot of people would never do. So I don't mind the idea of picking up a really nice AR and getting as much enjoyment out of it as I can.