Hitting Innocent Bystanders During Self Defense Shooting

[CTS]

So I've tried searching around for any kind of answer on this and it's proving rather difficult, so I thought I would ask what you guys have to say about it..and see if any of you know of actual cases where it happened.

Let's say there is an imminent threat and you use your firearm to stop it. The shooting of the assailant is 100% justified in the eyes of the law, but some of the rounds pass through (you're an excellent shot and didn't miss one round) and strike another innocent individual killing or seriously injuring them. How would that play out?

I imagine some questions about the exact nature of where the bystander was might come into play. For instance were they within a few feet immediately behind, were they not visible to you behind a barrier...if they were visible did you have the opportunity to change the angle of your attack to reduce the odds of hitting them?

Speaking strictly from a CRIMINAL standpoint (not civil), what would be most likely to happen and is anyone aware of any real life examples?

 

[45calibre]

the law says you cannot be held in legal jeopardy for using deadly force in self defense, but i dont know any of the details from that part of the IC.

 

[Gino66]

Is it a Republican or Democrat Prosecutor??

 

[j706]

Is it a Republican or Democrat Prosecutor??

Good point.

 

[GunnerDan]

Is it a Republican or Democrat Prosecutor??

Libertarian...

Gunner

 

[actaeon277]

Assume every bullet has a lawyer attached to it.

 

[singlestacksig]

you are going to be liable.. hope the guy attacking you has assets that you can got after..

you would probably not be charged with a crime.. but you will have to pay damages to person shot..

 

[PapaScout]

I don't know of any criminal or legal standing here, but I am responsible for every round that leaves my firearm. If I pulled the trigger - I caused whatever events happen next.

 

[Denny347]

It depends, if you hit the BG and the bullet goes through and hits an innocent, SAD SAD result but it was unforeseeable. However, if you fire at the BG my shooting wildly without any aiming and hit an innocent, it was foreseeable that an innocent would likely be harmed so you could still be arrested. In either case, have fun getting dragged in Federal Court for a civil lawsuit for years and years. Sure, it's better to be alive and in court than dead but I can tell you that the stress of dealing with the accusations, depo's, threat to take everything you have worked your whole life to build takes years off your life. You NEVER know what a jury is thinking or how they will rule. Sadly, with some exceptions, as soon as you fire that gun, expect your life to change forever...and not necessarily for the best.

 

[Mark 1911]

I don't know of any criminal or legal standing here, but I am responsible for every round that leaves my firearm. If I pulled the trigger - I caused whatever events happen next.

^^^^
This! I would think its possible, and probable, that someone could be held blameless for a self-defense shooting in which an attacker was killed or wounded, and at the same time be held responsible for an injury to innocent bystander caused by the same bullet.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

This is one of the reasons I carry big-bores with slow-moving slugs, to reduce the possibility of over-penetration in an urban/suburban environment.

That small diameter hyper-velocity stuff scares the crap out of me.

 

[netsecurity]

Despite many Democrats claiming that citizens should not be armed even when there is a mass murder taking place because "even more people would get killed in the crossfire" (they are presuming the citizen can't shoot straight, does not value the lives of his fellow citizens any more than the murderer, and that only police have proper training), I've rarely heard of a bystander getting hit during a justified shooting. In fact, the only "good" shooting I can recall where a bystander was hit is from NY a couple months ago, and it was police who were the ones that were involved.

 

[netsecurity]

This is one of the reasons I carry big-bores with slow-moving slugs, to reduce the possibility of over-penetration in an urban/suburban environment.

That small diameter hyper-velocity stuff scares the crap out of me.

The heavier the projectile, the more it penetrates, even at lower speeds (Energy = Velocity * Mass). Also, the faster a bullet travels, the quicker it expands upon impact. So while it may seem counter intuitive, the small, fast bullet should penetrate less than anything else from what I understand, especially a hollow point.

 

[eldirector]

I can't remember the legal term, but "precipitate" sticks in my head.

Basically, all damages the follow the initial illegal act are part of that initial illegal act.

For instance, if an armed robber sticks you up, you fire and miss striking the building behind the robber, the robber would be liable for the damage to the building. HE committed the illegal act, forcing you do defend yourself. If not for his actions, the building would not have been damaged.

That's my non-lawyer take on it. Surely there is recent case law on this.

Should you FEEL responsible for every trigger pull? Yes. Are you legally? Well, maybe, or maybe not.

Let's how your local prosecutor has his/her head screwed on right.

 

[CTS]

That's my non-lawyer take on it. Surely there is recent case law on this.

Should you FEEL responsible for every trigger pull? Yes. Are you legally? Well, maybe, or maybe not.

Actually that's what I was searching for. For as often as you hear that "they'll just hurt innocents" argument in all of the self defense uses of firearms I've been able to find in the last several years it's actually never happened, save the NYPD case, so far as I can tell.

 

[Birds Away]

The heavier the projectile, the more it penetrates, even at lower speeds (Energy = Velocity * Mass). Also, the faster a bullet travels, the quicker it expands upon impact. So while it may seem counter intuitive, the small, fast bullet should penetrate less than anything else from what I understand, especially a hollow point.

None of the ballistics tests I have read demonstrate that. 9mm ball penetrates farther than .45acp ball. There is no concern about over-penetration with .45 but there is with 9mm.

 

[Hogwylde]

You are morally, legally, and ethically responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun.

Remember that mantra and you will PROBABLY never have to worry.

 

[RolanNRA]

If you are justified in using deadly force, then even if you caused collateral damage, the perp would be held responsible for all harm caused.

 

[cosermann]

Apparently, it also depends on whether the person involved in the defensive shooting is a mere peon or one of the king's men.

Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers - CNN.com
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/nypd_commissioner_defends_forc.html

 

[DRob]

Ball

None of the ballistics tests I have read demonstrate that. 9mm ball penetrates farther than .45acp ball. There is no concern about over-penetration with .45 but there is with 9mm.

Who carries ball ammo for self defense? I'm concerned about over penetration with any ball or FMJ ammo of any caliber! I want my bullet to knock a BG off his feet, expend every bit of energy in him, and not exit.

IMO, ball pistol ammo is good for range use only and then only due to cost. My rifles will never see a round of FMJ.