Home-Based Online FFL.. Opinions Wanted!

[DEAIV]

So it’s always been my dream to work within this industry. And with the online market booming more than ever, this truly doesn’t seem like a bad idea. Especially now that I’ve researched the costs and requirements of having a home based FFL. Has anyone here done this themselves? I’m not expecting to get rich, but I really don’t want to work for free either. Ideally this could be a fun hobby and maybe one day become a full time job. Recently I’ve done research on 80% lowers and it seems like something I want to get into. I would love to have a website selling my own line of stripped and complete lower receivers as well as accessories and retail firearms(when inventory is available). As well as FFL transfers. If anyone is currently operating a home based FFL I would love to hear your input. All opinions welcome

 

[IndyDave1776]

Make sure you are ready for ATF horse. I wouldn't consider doing such a thing because I know that I don't have the patience for those fools.

 

[NHT3]

I was a home based FFL many years ago. At this point in time the FFLs that have been around years and have established relationships with distributors are having trouble stocking their shelves. You couldn't have picked a worse time to get started in the gun industry but that's just . As I've heard said many times by a local shop owner, "you can't sell from an empty cart".

 

[mcapo]

I won’t be critical or supportive of your business model as I don’t think that is what you’ve asked but what NTH3 says is accurate.

As to an home based FFL - I know someone that recently went through the application process. It was relatively simple as long as you are willing to be open, accurate and complete.

Make sure you consider who and what you are attracting to your home with transfers. Not everyone is welcome in your home.

Sounds like you may need a manufacturers ffl?

 

[chubbs]

I had an FFL for 6 years. My home based (pole barn not inside my home) buisness was a success with great customers. BUT i had a few weirdo's come around. An ffl will attract them. But keep your security tight around your property and all should be fine. Only reason I shut down was due to selling the property and buying another. I would highly suggest seeing what happens politically before taking the plunge.

 

[DEAIV]

I had an FFL for 6 years. My home based (pole barn not inside my home) buisness was a success with great customers. BUT i had a few weirdo's come around. An ffl will attract them. But keep your security tight around your property and all should be fine. Only reason I shut down was due to selling the property and buying another. I would highly suggest seeing what happens politically before taking the plunge.

Thank you for your input

 

[jy951]

From what I heard it was difficult to obtain a ffl license for a home office type business. I thought you needed more of a commercial location. Also, you may need to check your local ordinances for operating a retail business out of your house.

 

[chubbs]

It's not difficult on the federal side, but your city/county zoning can be damn near impossible.

 

[Route 45]

Some things to consider. Hobbies are supposed to be fun. Operating as an FFL sounds like a pain in the ass to me, unless you are dead serious about going all in as a full time business.

Also, horrible timing for starting as an FFL. Hard to get product, and who knows if it's even going to be legal to sell AR lowers in a few months?

Why a 'Kitchen Table' FFL is a Bad Idea - The Truth About Guns

Been thinking about applying for your own federal firearms license from the ATF? Have you really thought this through? Read this first.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[nonobaddog]

It's not difficult on the federal side, but your city/county zoning can be damn near impossible.

I started down this route and the city zoning people made it impossible - that was their exact word. Now I am looking into having it at my son's place out of town in his pole building.

 

[INgunowner]

Well this is the worst idea I've heard today...
Not this week, just today.

 

[HnK]

I had mine for about 8 years. Gun shows were fun and I went to everyone I could. I started doing transfers and at the time they had to take place at the house or a gun show. One customer got denied and he was upset. That was the end of the at home transfers. My biggest issue was finding distributors that would work with me and pricing. When I was doing it the only vendors who would work with me were Lipseys and Interstate. Even then Bob at PSS was selling G19s for about $10 less than I could buy them for. I finally found kind of a niche market and made around 8% on what I was selling when it was all said and done. It was my first business and a fun learning experience.


EDIT

The process of getting my FFL at home was not hard at all but I lived in rural Hendricks Co. They came to my house for an interview and to have a look around. Made sure all my paperwork was in order and approved me. Took about 2 more weeks to get my license in the mail. The complete process took around 2 months.

 

[jcj54]

Reading your first post, I get the impression you want to buy 80% lowers, complete the machining and stamp them as yours. This requires a manufacturing FFL, considerably more expensive and more paperwork for record keeping and reporting to BATFE than the regular dealer license. Also, as another post stated, the local zoning laws are more difficult to navigate than the Federal licensing. Indiana also requires a state dealer license.
Do your homework and make a well informed decision.

 

[nonobaddog]

I have a Type03 FFL and have been collecting(gathering) guns for quite a while. Now I am getting older and my son is not very interested in most of my collection. If I just start selling them some ATF agent could say I am in business and ruin the rest of my life, since being in business is explicitly forbidden with a Type03 FFL. One way to sell them is to get a Type01 FFL. So I am trying to do that now.
Like I already said - The first hurdle is the city zoning people and they say it is impossible. I will try with the city attorney but I don't have much hope there either. I think I will have to go out of town.

 

[HnK]

Reading your first post, I get the impression you want to buy 80% lowers, complete the machining and stamp them as yours. This requires a manufacturing FFL, considerably more expensive and more paperwork for record keeping and reporting to BATFE than the regular dealer license. Also, as another post stated, the local zoning laws are more difficult to navigate than the Federal licensing. Indiana also requires a state dealer license.
Do your homework and make a well informed decision.

I looked into the type 7 and the ITAR tax priced me out of it.

 

[repdept]

I had a friend that had an FFL. He has passed away now. This was a few years ago. he said money wise it was more trouble than it was worth.

 

[Denny347]

I have a Type03 FFL and have been collecting(gathering) guns for quite a while. Now I am getting older and my son is not very interested in most of my collection. If I just start selling them some ATF agent could say I am in business and ruin the rest of my life, since being in business is explicitly forbidden with a Type03 FFL. One way to sell them is to get a Type01 FFL. So I am trying to do that now.
Like I already said - The first hurdle is the city zoning people and they say it is impossible. I will try with the city attorney but I don't have much hope there either. I think I will have to go out of town.

You are absolutely allowed to sell off your collection. I had a Type 3 for years (1999-2012) and bought/sold many of collection. Doing business is obvious on your log. Buying and immediately selling guns. That is very different in selling a piece for the going rate at the time of the sale. No need to get a Type01 just to sell your guns.

 

[nonobaddog]

You are absolutely allowed to sell off your collection. I had a Type 3 for years (1999-2012) and bought/sold many of collection. Doing business is obvious on your log. Buying and immediately selling guns. That is very different in selling a piece for the going rate at the time of the sale. No need to get a Type01 just to sell your guns.

I spoke with two different ATF agents and while they did not agree completely they said that buying a gun within the last year and then start selling my collection could be construed as being in business. I did buy some guns within the last year. I would not be selling those guns. I would only be selling guns I have had for several years.
Remember they don't have to be right - all it takes is one agent to get a wild hair and accuse me of being in business even when I am not.

 

[printcraft]

Step 1: Build a bunker.

Step 2: Check to see if you are surrounded by nazis, white supremacists, magas. (chances are yes, they are everywhere)

Step 3: Draw down on anyone approaching your place of business.

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Profit.

 

[Denny347]

I spoke with two different ATF agents and while they did not agree completely they said that buying a gun within the last year and then start selling my collection could be construed as being in business. I did buy some guns within the last year. I would not be selling those guns. I would only be selling guns I have had for several years.
Remember they don't have to be right - all it takes is one agent to get a wild hair and accuse me of being in business even when I am not.

I understand. I used to hang over at gunboards.com and interact with hundreds of fellow C&R FFL holders, bought and sold to many of them. I've never heard of an issue with selling anything. In fact, as long as you recorded it, the very few who were audited (it is extremely rare) they didn't seem to care on the date of sales, just that it was recorded. Hell, back in the peak of cheap C&R deals 20 years ago, Century Arms used to sell 5fers. It was common to buy the 5, keep the best one, and sell the rest to recoup the money spent. Gunboards.com is still the best repository for C&R FFL info on the internet. https://www.gunboards.com/threads/c-r-question.98484/#post-760036

Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, DC 20226
Dear Mr. Rxxx,
This is in response to your letter dated October 18, 1996, requesting information concerning the acquisition and disposition of curio and relic firearms.
In response to your questions, we feel the following information will resolve your areas of concern and confusion:
(A) Current regulations do not require licensed collectors to record in their bound book firearms acquired prior to obtaining their license. Therefore, subsequent sales of the previously acquired firearms would require no entry in your bound book records.
(B) If, after obtaining a license, a firearm is acquired for your personal collection, it must be entered into your bound book whether or not you use your collectors' license to purchase the weapon. See 27CFR 178.125(f). Any subsequent sale would have to be entered in your bound book records.
(C) You may immediately dispose of a firearm to a lawful buyer. The length of time you retain it is immaterial. The determining factor is under what circumstances it was acquired. If the firearm was acquired to enhance your personal collection, and you decide you do not like or want it, the length of time and amount it is sold for do not matter. However, if you acquire guns for the purpose of resale, for profit, you would be engaged in a firearms dealing business and would need a dealers' license. As you are aware, the definition of a dealer is ''A person who devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principle objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.'' Therefore, the purpose of the transactions would be the determining factor in whether you were dealing in firearms or merely enhancing your personal collection. The mere fact that you make a profit on the sale of a firearm from your collection would not mean you were dealing in firearms. Repeated transactions which are motivated by the desire to generate profit or income rather than enhancing your collection would indicate you were dealing in firearms, not collecting. If a collector acquires curios or relics for the purpose of sale rather than to enhance a collection, the collector should be a licensed dealer in firearms. The sole intent and purpose f the collectors' license is to enable a firearms collector to obtain a curio or relic from outside his State of residence.
(D) Disposing of personal firearms for the purpose of upgrading a collection is not engaging in a firearms business.
We trust this has been responsive to your request. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Sincerely yours,
Charles Bartlett
Acting Chief
Firearms and Explosives Operations Branch