Hospitals

[JoshuaW]

I had an unfortunate accident today, and while I was on my way to the hospital, I began thinking what the rules were concerning carrying in a hospital. I tried to pay attention to any signs that may have been there, but I saw none. Of course I was in quite a bit of pain, so its hard to say. This was Elkhart General for what its worth.

Any thoughts or knowledge on hospital standards when it comes to firearms? I am trying to absorb as much of this information as possible while I wait on my LTCH to come.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Some hospitals have no guns or no weapons signs, however the signs carry no weight of law, so you can legally carry there once you have your LTCH, if they ask you to leave you need to or you might face trespassing charges. Check out the FAQ, yes we have a FAQ.

 

[E5RANGER375]

signs hold no legal weight in indiana. they can put as many signs on the door as they want that say: NO GUNS, ROCKET LAUNCHERS, TANKS, ETC. It doesnt matter, you still have the LEGAL right to carry in those places until a member of authority (security or manager for example) for that organization comes up to you, or by way of the police, ask you to leave. then YOU MUST LEAVE WHEN ASKED. if you refuse then you will go to jail for tresspassing.

I think the key here my friend is to keep your firearm CONCEALED when going into hospitals. most all of them are anti-gun. just conceal it in a bag or something and you are good to go. they have no right to search your property unless you give permission.

 

[moischmoe]

Welcome to INGO.

While it's legal to carry in a hospital, it may not be allowed by hospital policy. In most places, such as a store or restaurant, if they have policies against carrying firearms, they will simply ask you to leave. If you don't leave, you can be charged with trespassing.

I know if you are in an accident while carrying, and require EMS transport to the hospital, the police will hold your gun until you, or someone else, can stop by the station and pick it up.

However, as I understand it, in your case, you drove yourself to the hospital for treatment. If you were injured, I can't see the hospital turning you away and telling you that you have to leave because you have a gun. They might ask you to lock it in your car. Or perhaps turn it over to a LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) for "safe keeping".

I'm sure others here have been in this situation.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I believe that VA Hospitals are a whole other ball-game...

As "federal buildings", carry is a no-go. I THINK that even their parking lots are off-limits, too.

-J-

 

[gonzalezdad6]

I have open carried @ Clarian in Lafayette with no issues.

 

[DocBoCook]

I believe that VA Hospitals are a whole other ball-game...

As "federal buildings", carry is a no-go. I THINK that even their parking lots are off-limits, too.

-J-

Treat it like the Federal Admin Building downtown. Just because their isn't Sec. Guards and Metal Detectors, doesn't mean that they won't put a federal charge on you for carrying there.
You can thank the Internal Security Act of 1954 (or was it 52, don't remember) for that. Thanks Ike

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Treat it like the Federal Admin Building downtown. Just because their isn't Sec. Guards and Metal Detectors, doesn't mean that they won't put a federal charge on you for carrying there.
You can thank the Internal Security Act of 1954 (or was it 52, don't remember) for that. Thanks Ike

Last time I was at the Fed. Admin bldg down town... There WERE armed guards and metal detectors... Two years ago (new bride needed to change her SS information)

-J-

 

[OEF5]

Also at the INDY VA hospital I don't think there is a place you can go that doesn't have a security camera. They also have their own Police force.

I don't take mine when I have to go to the VA, don't even leave it in the truck, no need in taking chances on a federal charge.

The other place to watch is Camp Atterbury, don't take any firearms onto post unless you are LEO going to a Range or going hunting and you only have your hunting fire arm. It's not a public access site, and they can search every inch of your vehicle. You can refuse to let them, but then you have to leave, and if you get real upset you can be charged with trespassing on federal property

 

[DocBoCook]

Last time I was at the Fed. Admin bldg down town... There WERE armed guards and metal detectors... Two years ago (new bride needed to change her SS information)

-J-

I meant that Just because the VA doesn't have it, doesn't mean that the VA isn't the same way

 

[INGunGuy]

I still have to holler bull**** about carrying in a federal facility, post office, VA hospital, etc... here is federal code:

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities




(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).



Well if it doesnt apply to the carrying of a firearm incidental to hunting or "Other lawful purposes" then carrying within a federal facility is perfectly legal. There is the federal code, if someone else can point me to other federal code that forbids the carrying of a firearm on or in a federal building, please point it out to me.

INGunGuy

 

[DocGlock86]

I work Security for a local hospital and I know at least in our network is a "no gun" policy. Unfortunately we have to force it "if we see a gun". And pretty much that is asking if you could secure it in your car, have security secure it in their safe (which I don't like to do), or leave. Now I know for me and a few of my "gun pro" buddies we have a mindset, if we don't see it how can we enforce it and if we see an INGO hat we know not to ask .

 

[markz68]

The hospital I work for (for the last 12+ years) does not have any weapons signs posted. They do provide a lock box at the switchboard in which to secure your weapons. It has 4 compartments and 4 keys. I am not sure who actually uses the lockbox. I have not heard of anyone open carrying or being asked to leave. Nor have I heard of anyone being spotted with a gun. I will ask around and see what I can find out.

As an employee it is against policy for me to carry at work. My boss and I both have our LTCH's.

 

[OEF5]

I still have to holler bull**** about carrying in a federal facility, post office, VA hospital, etc... here is federal code:

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities




(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility) (seperat charge I think), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).



Well if it doesnt apply to the carrying of a firearm incidental to hunting or "Other lawful purposes" then carrying within a federal facility is perfectly legal. There is the federal code, if someone else can point me to other federal code that forbids the carrying of a firearm on or in a federal building, please point it out to me.

INGunGuy

That's exactly what I just said about Atterbury. It is illegal to carry a firearm onto, into a federal facility unless you are a dully appointed Federal or State or Goverenment or Military person on offical business. Now if you are hunting on said federal property then you make take the firearm for hunting only, not any extra's. I don't think there is any hunting at the VA hospital, nor at any Federal building.

Read all of the law, not just the line that makes sense to you and appears to allow you to carry on federal property, it doesn't. It's very very clear on who can, and when you can.

 

[TopDog]

Treat it like the Federal Admin Building downtown. Just because their isn't Sec. Guards and Metal Detectors, doesn't mean that they won't put a federal charge on you for carrying there.
You can thank the Internal Security Act of 1954 (or was it 52, don't remember) for that. Thanks Ike

Good this was brought up. I know the VA hospital I go to has signs to remind people it's a federal offense to carry there.

But here is a question. I know the VA is outsourcing some of its more over crowded sections. So if the VA rents space and sets up shop is that still considered federal property?

How about if it's a civilian enterprise and VA employees work there but the VA has no contract for the space, I'm guessing in that situation its not federal property so its legal to carry?

 

[E5RANGER375]

VA, been there done that, still go...... that being said. if they never see it then how are you gonna get in trouble?

 

[TopDog]

VA, been there done that, still go...... that being said. if they never see it then how are you gonna get in trouble?

Simply put, its not worth the risk of a federal charge on your record.

 

[wbjenks]

Who is willing to be the test case? Might cost a lot of $$$ to see if you are right. Talk with a lawyer. It will cost you less........

 

[moischmoe]

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

INGunGuy

"Hunting or other lawful purposes" exempt someone from subsection (a). Is self defense not a lawful purpose? What could be some other examples of "lawful purpose"?

 

[INGunGuy]

That's exactly what I just said about Atterbury. It is illegal to carry a firearm onto, into a federal facility unless you are a dully appointed Federal or State or Goverenment or Military person on offical business. Now if you are hunting on said federal property then you make take the firearm for hunting only, not any extra's. I don't think there is any hunting at the VA hospital, nor at any Federal building.

Read all of the law, not just the line that makes sense to you and appears to allow you to carry on federal property, it doesn't. It's very very clear on who can, and when you can.

Well I still havent found where it is UNLAWFUL to carry on a federal facility. The federal code seems clear enough,

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Where does it state that it is unlawful? Is there any case law where a person was arrested/charged/convicted under the federal statue that states specifically that it is NOT unlawful.

Thanks,

INGunGuy