Welcome to the dilemma T/C shooters have had for almost 50 years. It was mentioned in another forum that if you are in a situation where your numbers are being checked you have already messed up. I agree with some of the other members who mentioned how inexpensive it is to build right now to have the peace of mind that your pistol is indeed a pistol and not a converted rifle.
-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
How can they tell
- Thread starter bloodman
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
The only problem with erring on the side of caution is that you need to apply for a $200 tax and succumb to a permission slip in lieu of an AR/AK pistol. Those blades/braces have been looking a lot like stocks lately, there even was a case of a zealous LEO arresting somebody in Colorado for shooting his AR pistol. The LEO 'busted' him for an illegal SBR. Best to not push your luck.
where do you get your info on the Colorado arrest?
take a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMJ9yXVdjk&index=86&list=PL68CD11EED198F523 your Colorado arrest comes in about 1:40 but watch the whole thing. It`s true I have the letter.
I have checked with two gun shops and the BATF and they all have said that it is legal to swich back an forth from rifle to pistol if the item(stripped lower) was reported on 4473 as a other firearm. The BATF also said that there is no way that they could verify what was reported on the 4473, so how can they tell? go figure.
Kernelkrink
Plinker
A receiver of any Title 1 gun, in and of itself, is neither a rifle/shotgun or a handgun as it has no distinguishing features of either one and thus transfers as "other" on a form 4473. The catch is anything other than a "virgin" receiver that has never been assembled before COULD have been originally assembled as a long gun. ATF considers any firearm "made" from a long gun to still be a rifle or shotgun so any "handgun" assembled on such a receiver would be an NFA item (SBR or SBS). However, per the US Supreme Court Thompson/Center case any receiver first assembled as a "handgun" can later be converted to a rifle and back again without creating an NFA weapon so long as the shoulder stock is never attached while the short bbl is also attached.
How does ATF Know? In the case of a commercially made whole gun that was later stripped and sold as a receiver or even as an assembled handgun, they simply contact Colt or Bushmaster or whoever and ask how it left the factory. Rifle, you're busted. Bare receiver, they pretty much have no way of proving it one way or another unless the guy who assembled it the first time testifies he did so as a rifle.
You assembled it the first time? Only you know how it was configured. I will say this, ATF sez a handgun AR15 is perfectly legal with a standard buffer tube so long as the stock itself is not attached. IOW, if you screwed on the buffer tube and put the upper on it BEFORE you slid on the stock technically you created a handgun first, then converted it to a rifle when the stock went on! In any event, all my builds the stock is the last part to be put on just for this reason. Gives you flexibility.
Originally built as a handgun but later sold in rifle config? Legally, it can still be swapped back to a handgun, but you of course are taking someone else's word for the fact it was originally a handgun. What the 4473 says is pretty much irrelevant as it simply reflects the current configuration of the receiver. Take the TC case, for instance. TC made up a rifle/handgun "kit" consisting of a Contender receiver, pistol grip, shoulder stock, and two bbls, one under 16" and one over. SCOTUS says such a setup is legal to own and swap back and forth so long as the stock and short bbl are never installed together. Say I own one and want to sell it. I take the kit in it's case into the gunstore and sell it to them. The receiver currently has the rifle bbl and stock on it and the pistol grip and handgun bbl are laying beside it in the case. It would get entered into the books as a rifle, right? Sold that way too, 4473 would say long gun. Yet SCOTUS specifically ruled on this model that it could legally be a handgun again. Which makes the 4473 designation irrelevant. Back in the day there was no "other" designation on a 4473, only long gun or handgun. Back in those days whenever we sold a bare receiver at the gunshop it was usually put under the "normal" heading (AR15 would go under long gun, a 1911 frame would go under handgun) but would always make the notation it was a bare receiver. In that situation they were still legal to build into a handgun despite transferring as a rifle.
How does ATF Know? In the case of a commercially made whole gun that was later stripped and sold as a receiver or even as an assembled handgun, they simply contact Colt or Bushmaster or whoever and ask how it left the factory. Rifle, you're busted. Bare receiver, they pretty much have no way of proving it one way or another unless the guy who assembled it the first time testifies he did so as a rifle.
You assembled it the first time? Only you know how it was configured. I will say this, ATF sez a handgun AR15 is perfectly legal with a standard buffer tube so long as the stock itself is not attached. IOW, if you screwed on the buffer tube and put the upper on it BEFORE you slid on the stock technically you created a handgun first, then converted it to a rifle when the stock went on! In any event, all my builds the stock is the last part to be put on just for this reason. Gives you flexibility.
Originally built as a handgun but later sold in rifle config? Legally, it can still be swapped back to a handgun, but you of course are taking someone else's word for the fact it was originally a handgun. What the 4473 says is pretty much irrelevant as it simply reflects the current configuration of the receiver. Take the TC case, for instance. TC made up a rifle/handgun "kit" consisting of a Contender receiver, pistol grip, shoulder stock, and two bbls, one under 16" and one over. SCOTUS says such a setup is legal to own and swap back and forth so long as the stock and short bbl are never installed together. Say I own one and want to sell it. I take the kit in it's case into the gunstore and sell it to them. The receiver currently has the rifle bbl and stock on it and the pistol grip and handgun bbl are laying beside it in the case. It would get entered into the books as a rifle, right? Sold that way too, 4473 would say long gun. Yet SCOTUS specifically ruled on this model that it could legally be a handgun again. Which makes the 4473 designation irrelevant. Back in the day there was no "other" designation on a 4473, only long gun or handgun. Back in those days whenever we sold a bare receiver at the gunshop it was usually put under the "normal" heading (AR15 would go under long gun, a 1911 frame would go under handgun) but would always make the notation it was a bare receiver. In that situation they were still legal to build into a handgun despite transferring as a rifle.
IOW, if you screwed on the buffer tube and put the upper on it BEFORE you slid on the stock technically you created a handgun first, then converted it to a rifle when the stock went on! In any event, all my builds the stock is the last part to be put on just for this reason. Gives you flexibility.
Who is going to know what order you assembled this firearm in, or went from rifle to pistol?
Who is going to know what order you assembled this firearm in, or went from rifle to pistol?
To me, the interesting thing about this question is the other side of the answer. If asked, under oath, by a government agent, are you going to tell the truth?
[ETA: Full disclosure, I keep the pistol buffer tube that I first installed on an AR lower that now sits as a rifle, just in case I want to go back and as a token of evidence about the order it was assembled.]
Site Supporter
Members online
- woodsie57
- Mgderf
- bogus
- JTuttle
- klausm
- johny5
- Loco179
- Mr24g
- Jtrain
- Principal Skinr
- wisboy
- MCgrease08
- newbrass
- billmyn
- RJW
- vantex502
- jsclimbs
- drillsgt
- PappyD
- Fallschirmjaeger
- pilgrim
- Creedmoor
- rbhargan
- BGDave
- Fester
- slims2002
- TheGrumpyGuy
- sadclownwp
- Dtruck260
- bking1340
- X3r0h0uR
- Super Bee
- vibrationeng
- indyartisan
- Jdubbs
- Methane Herder
- Six Forty-Two
- Michigan Slim
- dmeadlo
- Hkindiana
- DCR
- RoundsnGrounds
- Luke.Schlatter
- mbkintner
- Gunmetalgray
- 812 rimfire
- HCRMPD1
- miguel
- BIGred7173
- Itchytriggerfinger
