How long until Israel turns to China?

[Agan_08]

I really don't think that comment was warranted. I don't think there is anything wrong with commending someone for having a college education, it's something to be proud of. Now if you can refocus on the subject of the thread instead of trying to offend a 19 year old, maybe we can all benefit.

 

[smoking357]

You know smoking, looking over your other other posts it looks to me like you might just be on here to troll rather than discuss or debate anything. Your negative rep seems to back that appearance up.

You're not seeking debate. You're seeking agreement.

Read Where the Right Went Wrong by Patrick J. Buchanan. Further, read Pat's other writings on the neocons' ability to convince the rank-and-file Republican that support of Israel somehow equals patriotism to America.

When we say "Country First," we mean our country.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I really don't think that comment was warranted. I don't think there is anything wrong with commending someone for having a college education, it's something to be proud of. Now if you can refocus on the subject of the thread instead of trying to offend a 19 year old, maybe we can all benefit.

If you think that just because someone goes to college makes them educated,you are mistaken.As for offending you,I really don't care if I did.You post on here and all you seem to want to do is bash Israel because of the poor Palestinians that will never be happy with what they have.
Maybe you should pick up the one book that tells about who gave the land to the Jews.
note: It was not the U.N.

 

[smoking357]

Just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean it's not real.

But that isn't what I said. I can imagine a god; I can imagine many sorts of gods. Belief in a deity is not a proper basis for governance or political discussion.

 

[Agan_08]

If you read previous posts you will notice that most people are bashing only one side. I'm simply pointing out that there is another side to the issue. Pointing out that both sides are at fault is a rational stance to take. I'm not offended by you taking one side or the other, most people do, it's okay. It's rather silly for 2 people to go back and forth like this, it retracts from the intention of the discussion topic.

 

[38special]

What will happen if we leave them? Isreal will attack Iran, nuke anyone who tries to stop them, and we'll never see another drop of oil from the Mid-East. Isreal doesn't need us for their defense. We've never helped defend them. That land you are whining about? Isreal took it from nations who attacked her... if they wanted to keep it, they should quit trying to kill all the Jews.

The settlements aren't illegal. It's Isreal's land. Neither we, nor the UN, gets to dictate to Isreal what laws they may or may not implement within their territories. The Palestinians wanted land, they were given land, and kept killing Jews. Even when given their own land and nation, they turned their backs on peace, and no honest person can say otherwise. They, and anti-Semites who side with them, want the dirty Jews all dead. They've said so. It's no mystery. And Isreal will take the whole frigging world with them if they can if they are going to fall. As they should.

Isreal doesn't need us. They make their own arms, and what they get from us they can get elsewhere. WE need rapport with Isreal so we can exercise some control over them. Once that rapport is gone, so is the oil, and we're all trying to figure out where to tie up our horses again.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Israel has an impressive air force and hardly needs the support of the US. That said,as a Christian I pray I won't live to see the day that this country no longer supports Isreal.

I don't know about you guys but I am loving the new policy of supporting the french and turning down Israel. If there was ever a country of wild eyed warriors to have on your side it is the french.

I'm pretty confused about this as well. Are you serious?

Actually the occupied territories don't belong to Israel. And this whole conflict has less to do with religion than it does ethnicity. And I don't know if you're aware of this, but the Israelis are committing apartheid. Look what happened at Deir Yassin. They rounded up an entire Palestinian village, murdered them, and stuffed the bodies into a well before the U.N. could get there. I'm not saying the Arab countries aren't at fault, I'm just saying Israel is as much to blame as anyone for the conflict.

Clearly your professor hasn't adequately explained this to you. This *IS* about religion. Muslims and Jews have fought as long as they've both been around.

Expat, what's your degree in ? FYI taking classes on something is studying it.

And if we're bringing religion into this, the most religious of Jews (acculturated Jews) hate Israel. They believe it is not a man's job, rather God's, to gather his people in the area that is now Israel.

Care to back this up? I see nothing to indicate that "most Jews hate Israel". That's a pretty wild claim IMO.

Keep in mind that just because you are being taught something in a classroom does not mean that it is factual. Universities, Colleges, indidividual departments and professors all have their own agendas. Don't be so quick to be indoctrinated by the views of one person. Think for yourself and not for your professor's approval. You will get a lot more out of your education if you approach it that way.

Ditto. I had a speech professor in College who had a PhD. He was very well educated and he had a very obvious agenda. I did a speech advocating gun ownership, researching the facts decisively. It was my most well-prepared speech all year. I got a 76%. Later in the semester, I did a devil's-advocate speech advocating the legalization of marijuana. I did this speech simply to see how biased this professor would be. I threw it together in about 40 minutes the night before the speech. My sources were sketchy at best, and I had nothing authoritative. I got a 96% on that speech.

Professors are often educated and very, very biased. In fact, something like 50:1 are highly liberal.

Wanna be "independent"? Take what your professor says with a grain of salt. Or a huge heaping tablespoon.

If you read previous posts you will notice that most people are bashing only one side. I'm simply pointing out that there is another side to the issue. Pointing out that both sides are at fault is a rational stance to take. I'm not offended by you taking one side or the other, most people do, it's okay. It's rather silly for 2 people to go back and forth like this, it retracts from the intention of the discussion topic.

I recall a thread on this site where the NAACP was suing a guy who shot and killed a man in defense of a police officer. The man was acting clearly in defense of the officer by all witness accounts, yet NAACP had their "side of the story".

Yes, there are often two sides to every story. And that doesn't mean both sides are in any way right.

 

[Eddie]

Expat: Since you are an educated person, your opinion is more valuable

Joe Williams, Eddie: Everything you've said is correct, thank you for being rational. It's a class taught out of the Honors College, which means it deals with both sides of the issue and allows people to form their own opinions. I'm not pro-Palestinian by any means, I'm just aware that most information Americans get is very biased towards Israel. BOTH sides are at fault. An Israeli PM (Rabin) was actually shot for cooperating.

Robert Richardson: You don't know my schedule, I'm done for the day

Getting an education can be a very positive experience if you can keep in mind that what you are receiving is mostly opinion and not fact. Even in the so called hard sciences like chemistry and physics you are dealing with theories as opposed to facts.

An education certifies that you are capable of absorbing and regurgitating information and showing up to class on occasion, nothing more. that being said, the right piece of paper from the right school will open up a lot of doors so it can be well worth your time earning that degree, just don't take yourself too seriously.

 

[Agan_08]

I didn't mean "most Jews" I meant the "most religious Jews", the ones that are basically only found in NYC and Russia, who live in isolation from gentiles. That's why I added "acculturated Jews." And Muslims and Jews haven't always been at war, during the Ottoman Empire they actually lived in relative peace, especially compared to what's going on now. And as far as my education being mostly opinion, I'm a biology/pre-dent major, which means that opinion doesn't play a huge part in my main field of study (thankfully). I would hardly call what I'm doing as simple as "showing up on occasion" or "absorbing information", I work my ass off because dental school is insanely hard to get in to. That being said Eddie, I know where you're coming from, thank you for your input

 

[dross]

The land now known as Israel or Palestine first belonged to peoples of disputed origin. Then it belonged to the Jewish people for several hundred years. Then to Egypt, then to Rome, then it belonged to the Christians. The Arab Muslims took over, then the Christians again, then the Arab Muslims. The Turks took over, and lost the territory in WWI. The Brits administered the area, promising a division that included a Jewish state. That promise was not kept for thirty years, finally it was after WWII.

Arabs and Jews had lived side by side, but when Israel was formed as as state, the Arabs living there (the "Palestinians") left, the vast majority voluntarily because they were sure Israel would be crushed in the war that came. At the same time an almost equal number of Jews were expelled by FORCE from the surrounding Arab countries. Those Jewish refugees were taken in by Israel, but the Arabs who left Israel voluntarilay were denied citizenship by the Arab states, and instead forced to live in refugee camps.

Until Iraq had its first free elections, the Arabs who had the most political freedome were the ones who lived in Israel.

If you go be length of occupancy, the land belongs to the Jews. If you go by first come, first served, the order of religious succession would be Jews first, Christians second, Muslims last. If you say that it was the Muslims because they conquered it, then it must be the Brits because they conquered it from the Turks, who had conquered it years before.

To me, the Jews have the best claim to the tiny piece of the area they've been allotted.

If you think the Arabs have a better claim, make your case by something more substantial than unsupported assertion, the blunt instrument of the troll.

Got history?

 

[Agan_08]

Well played dross, nice research... if the Palestinians can't even decide who is even going to represent their people (without constant fighting), they can't make a strong case for their own state

 

[Eddie]

I didn't mean "most Jews" I meant the "most religious Jews", the ones that are basically only found in NYC and Russia, who live in isolation from gentiles. That's why I added "acculturated Jews." And Muslims and Jews haven't always been at war, during the Ottoman Empire they actually lived in relative peace, especially compared to what's going on now. And as far as my education being mostly opinion, I'm a biology/pre-dent major, which means that opinion doesn't play a huge part in my main field of study (thankfully). I would hardly call what I'm doing as simple as "showing up on occasion" or "absorbing information", I work my ass off because dental school is insanely hard to get in to. That being said Eddie, I know where you're coming from, thank you for your input

Good. I had a buddy in college that wasted his G.I. bill on a degree in folklore. I am still serious though, get your license to practice dentistry, practice for ten years and then look back and see if what you are doing then is what they taught you in school. Its all opinion and opinions change over time.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Why should the US tell Israel what to do about anything? We should mind our own business and tend to our own needs. All of these problems one encounters when they meddle in international affairs is no surprise. I wonder what the Framers had in mind...

That being said, I disagree with the dispensational theology that says those who honor Israel honor God. Those who honor God, honor God. Israel can and is often immoral as a whole. Don't believe me? Go there and see if Israel is in line with the Biblical theology that describes how Israel should be. No one is perfect, but "Israel" is now anywhere a man or woman behaves like they are a part of the meta-physical part of Israel.

When I unjustly strike my brother, am I a part of Israel?

When I feed and clothe the poor, amd I a part of Israel?

Food for thought and everyone is welcome to agree to disagree.

I do have a special place in my heard for Israel, though. The IDF, the Go-El Haddam of the First Testament, and the culture born in the lands of Israel/Judah/Canaan is what I have dedicated much of my life towards.

 

[Loco179]

I don't know about you guys but I am loving the new policy of supporting the french and turning down Israel. If there was ever a country of wild eyed warriors to have on your side it is the french.

Why isn't he treating the French like crap? They have caused us more headaches than anyone. The French can never be trusted.

 

[dross]

Why isn't he treating the French like crap? They have caused us more headaches than anyone. The French can never be trusted.

They don't like the U.S. either.

 

[smoking357]

If you go be length of occupancy, the land belongs to the Jews.

Absolutely incorrect. During the last 2,000 years, the Jews have been a minority in Palestine for about 1,800. Further, the Jews currently in Palestine have little to no ethic commonality with the Jews who were expelled by the Romans.

 

[Expat]

They don't like the U.S. either.

bing bing bing... that's why he likes France, they hate the US.

 

[dross]

It's revealing when someone counters your points with non sequiturs.

You: The sky is blue.
Troll: Wrong. The sea is blue green, and the land is green and brown.

 

[38special]

I didn't mean "most Jews" I meant the "most religious Jews", the ones that are basically only found in NYC and Russia, who live in isolation from gentiles. That's why I added "acculturated Jews."

Again, do you have any basis for this other than a potentially biased college professor's assertions?

That being said, I disagree with the dispensational theology that says those who honor Israel honor God. Those who honor God, honor God. Israel can and is often immoral as a whole. Don't believe me? Go there and see if Israel is in line with the Biblical theology that describes how Israel should be. No one is perfect, but "Israel" is now anywhere a man or woman behaves like they are a part of the meta-physical part of Israel.

I do have a special place in my heard for Israel, though. The IDF, the Go-El Haddam of the First Testament, and the culture born in the lands of Israel/Judah/Canaan is what I have dedicated much of my life towards.

You are correct. Heck, Biblically - the Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years for their disobedience. But the Bible still says those who support Israel will be blessed, despite their propensity to sin as all humans.

 

[Agan_08]

You can actually find pictures of acculturated Jews (rabbis) standing outside of the U.N. holding anti-Israel signs. I don't know what's so hard to understand, not all Jews are Zionists. Their interpretation of the Aliyah is that it is God's job to gather His people in the Holy Land, not a government of man.

 

[Son of Liberty]

Im glad we are doing Israel, the way we are. If it was a muslim country doing the same thing. We would be all over their asses. And so would just about everyone on this site. Furthermore, can the christians on this site explain to me how fighting a holy war, as a jew or christian is any different, than a jihad? Its all the same killing in the name of god, which kinda goes against the teachings of all three of those religions. It also makes no sense to kill people over something you have absolutly no proof of, thats what makes it faith. If it was something thats was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt we would call it a fact. Enough of the ranting. The point is right is right, wrong is wrong. Unless of course you are a jew or a christian then you can do what you want as long as you are doing it to muslims.