How to freeze proof an above ground cistern in a shed?

[nate1865]

Anyone have an above ground cistern they've successfully freezeproofed?


I'm in a situation where I need a year round water supply and a well is not an option. I've been thinking of putting one of those big, plastic, above ground cisterns in a shed with a shallow well pump. It seems like it would be easy to construct and maintain, but I need to make sure it doesn't freeze in the winter. This would be in an area out of the wind and open, but nonetheless in the typical central Indiana winter temperature range.

Since I have power, on option is to submerge a utility deicer in the tank, but it would be nice not to have the ongoing utility expense. Obviously I could insulate it well enough, but how much insulation is enough?

 

[littletommy]

Wouldn't a pool supply place have an additive? I'm thinking there's an anti freeze chemical used to winterize pools.

 

[nate1865]

Ah, I should have mentioned I'm trying to keep the water safe for drinking.

 

[littletommy]

Ah, I should have mentioned I'm trying to keep the water safe for drinking.

Oh, yeah, probably wouldn't wanna drink pool chemicals then.

 

[smokingman]

Stock tank heater,or fish pond heater.

It all comes down to heat.Keeping the inside of that shed above 32 degrees,or keeping an air opening in the ice.

You could also try a solar pop can heating type system.We just started building one today.Ours is using 235 empty cans and half of an old sliding glass door.I will post pictures and a build up in the next few days.I think one on the south side of your shed would provide enough heat if the shed is insulated.Something like these... https://www.google.com/search?q=sol...pw.r_qf.&fp=d0abbd3c497cb483&biw=1280&bih=553

 

[nate1865]

Hm, the challenge I'd have is the size of the tank and the size of the stock tank heater. The tank may be 3,000 gallons. Would a small heater do enough to keep a hole in the ice?

 

[Arm America]

Depending on the vessel size, aquarium aerators come in various sizes,
which will keep water moving, thus prevent freezing.

 

[churchmouse]

Depending on the vessel size, aquarium aerators come in various sizes,
which will keep water moving, thus prevent freezing.

Yes but only to a point. You may have to step up to a small heater that will keep the area above 40 deg. That is a safe point for exposed pipes etc. If you do an ample job of insulating and sealing up the cracks and such I have seen a few spot lights keep a pump house warm enough in deep winter. Eventually everything becomes the temp of its surroundings. Without a boost in the ambient of the area it will fall to the outdoor temps regardless.
What are your measurements for the building???

 

[nate1865]

I'm thinking at least 2500 gallons which is 95" W X 91" H.

The shed would be a 10X10 structure.

I like the aerator idea too!

Where would one find a LARGE tank aerator?

 

[churchmouse]

I'm thinking at least 2500 gallons which is 95" W X 91" H.

The shed would be a 10X10 structure.

I like the aerator idea too!

An aerator brings in the ambient air at the ambient temp. There is no magic or free way to keep this area warm. In sustained mid 20 deg. temps the building will eventually assume the ambient temp around it. Heat and cold will try and become balanced. If they did not we would not need as much heat in our homes etc.

 

[bwframe]

Paint your shed flat black or tent it in black plastic.
Blanket your tank.
Keep outside air from under your floor.
Put in indoor/outdoor remote/tracking thermometers.

 

[Arm America]

On a vessel of this size, I would suggest a small air compressor with tank. The compressor would then supply compressed air to a pex coil that you pre-drilled and placed at the bottom of the vessel. Obviously. you would need to provide weights to the coil as it will attempt to float. The movement of water is what prevents the freezing.

 

[nate1865]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to find the biggest deicing coil I can and let it float on top, making sure the top doesn't freeze all the way across.

 

[churchmouse]

Just keep the building above 40 deg. Easiest solution.
A compressor is not something I would use to push air through drinking water. I use compressed air for many things in my personal shop and in the trade. It carry's a lot of undesirable things including oil if a direct displacement reciprocating unit is used. An oil-less unit will still not be something I would use for potable water. The energy involved to run a compressor is not that much less than just finding a way to keep the ambient in the building above freezing. There are other things to consider such as the piping and such to and from the tank. These have to be protected more than the tank as they will freeze up faster than the mass in the tank.

 

[karl77]

would spray foam the whole building in the 8-10" range.

the solar kit is a good idea, but a step further; run the tubing in the concrete floor than hit the tubing. the slab would act like a heat sink and keep the water from freezing solid.

 

[J man]

Why do you not want to bury it?

 

[Aggar]

Insulate the building well. Keep the tak up off the bare concrete , maybe foam insulation board. Also seal the building up so the cold doesn't get in. What about a livestock water ank heater? Is there power to the shed?

 

[churchmouse]

Insulate the building well. Keep the tak up off the bare concrete , maybe foam insulation board. Also seal the building up so the cold doesn't get in. What about a livestock water ank heater? Is there power to the shed?

This idea is a good one.

 

[jeremy]

I bet if you put it in an insulated shed not much bigger than the tank with a couple incandescent bulbs shining, put a 6" insulated floor under the tank to keep it off the concrete ...

 

[churchmouse]

I bet if you put it in an insulated shed not much bigger than the tank with a couple incandescent bulbs shining, put a 6" insulated floor under the tank to keep it off the concrete ...

This was my idea earlier in the thread. I have seen farmers keep a pump shed warm with a couple of floods.