How to run a gun shop--IMO

[Hohn]

Now that you also claim to be a self-taught engineer as well, I certainly hope you are in compliance with your states laws concerning practicing engineering. In some states, claims you are making by the above statement would be a misdemeanor for the first offense and a felony for the second. Such violations would involve fines at a minimum and possibly imprisonment. Just saying - States require licensing of engineers for a reason.

Yes and no. Only engineers that offer services directly to the public must be licensed by taking the ABET-approved courses.

I work for a private firm and hence need no license whatsoever.

But thanks for the heads up. Or scare tactic, whichever.

 

[jrh84]

Here's my .

I don't think your model as originally stated will fly. I do think there are some interesting concepts though. I'll present a few models I've seen, including a couple of examples/variations of your general idea that are already up and running.

1. Small, local gun shop.....50-100 guns, lots of these around Indiana. What MIGHT fly for this scenario, especially when overwhelmed like on a Saturday morning, is a big sign at the front door that says "We try to give the best customer service and advice possible to everyone, but at times there are too many customers to help at the same time. Feel free to browse, and if you have a question, let any of us know and we'll do our best to answer it and help you as quickly and completely as possible."

2. The medium size store....Cabela's/Bass Pro. They have their "commoner" products in the big cases and behind the counter...take a number, wait your turn, and someone will be glad to help you when they are available.

Off to the side, you have the "fine gun room" that you walk through a set of double doors to get into. Lots of "browsers" meander through, but mostly just to ooh and ahh at the $20k side-by-sides and other high-end goodies. I'm guessing that the locked cabinets and higher price tags keep most people from tire-kicking. If someone is legitimately interested in a big ticket item and asks to see it, I'm sure they are well taken care of. The doors, locked cabinets, and price tags keep the coonfingering to a minimum though, I'm guessing. If Cabela's only had the fine gun room type setup, and no "commoner" guns, I would bet that there wouldn't be a need for a "take a number" system, because noone would go there to buy guns, or ammo, etc.

3. The large store....Whittaker's. 3000-4000 guns on display, ripe for coonfingering, with most items having several backup copies in the back to actually sell. Everything from $100 Rossis, to $2000 Coopers, to $6,000 Dakotas, to $10,000 Barretts....and LOTS of in-between. Even if you buy something, you'll still be doing an hour's worth of "browsing." They have several people ringing people out and running NICS checks, but they also have a few people wandering the isles, helping anyone and everyone that has a question/concern. Quick answers for simple questions, detailed answers for more in depth questions. Everyone seems happy and satisfied with their customer service from what I've seen. I know I have been.

I have "browsed" a lot more than I've bought from Whittaker's, but one of those days a Cooper .22 is going to follow me home.


4. The theoretical "mega store"....10-20,000 guns or more. This is more of a museum/gun show than a retail store, not unlike the mothership Bass Pro in Springfield, MO for outdoor products in general (no larger than normal firearms section). It is the largest tourist attraction in Missouri by a large spread. Tons to see in the "commoner" area for free. Parts of their wildlife display have an admission...$5-10 if I remember correctly. I went into the big Bass Pro dozens of times while I was in school. I've never paid to see the "extras" if that's any indication.

I'm guessing you've already picked up on it, or knew it beforehand, but gun owners and shoppers are a finicky bunch. I generally do a lot of homework on a planned purchase...I shop around, waffle back and forth, agonize over it, then finally buy it. If I get a sour taste in my mouth during a "homework" trip, it's doubtful the purchase will be from there when I do decide. On the other hand, I occasionally see something that trips my trigger so to speak, and make an impluse buy. Also, there seems to be a razor's edge between "delighted" and "disgusted" with gun people, and a stiff breeze constantly blowing us towards disgusted at any given minute. Innovation is great, but I don't think any big shift away from the typical gun shop model would have quick success. Small tweaks here and there towards a different model to gradually pull customers your direction seems like it'd be more likely to succeed.


Now for the obligatory snarky response, since this is INGO afterall....instead of hiring someone to take everyone's $5 admission fee at the door, why not just have that additional salesperson answering questions and providing customer service?

 

[Gunaria]

Sometimes thinking out loud is not the best idea.

What makes any business is the employees that they hire.

 

[mellowwetto]

Hey Hohn. Everyone is smarter, tougher & more brave sitting in their home behind a computer screen.

You put your thoughts & ideas on an internet forum & got blazed. Don't let it beat you down.

Hard work & belief in your ideas will get you somewhere. If thats not true, then look at all the people that has invented something or started a business that everyone mocked or said it was a pipedream.

 

[Justin073190]

your plan may possibly work if you had every gun in stock imaginable that way people who goes there money won't be wasted if you dont have it in stock. Now my opinion would be just have another employee lurking asking if the customers if their ready to buy or have a purchase station set up that if you are ready to buy go to that station tell em what you want and your good to go. I'm guilty of fondling and personally thats my process of buying a gun I will spend upwards close to a month just to purchase a gun. Just my

 

[richardraw316]

If Don would charge $50 to get in, maybe I'd actually visit the place since that's probably an effective way to keep the scum out.

i would pay the 50 to get out of dons.

 

[richardraw316]

If i am understanding this correctly, you want a cover charge to look at the guns?
you are turning a gun shop into a strip club?
I like it! How about a 1 gun min purchase? Loud music, smokey room, watered down drinks,and gun shop employees doing dances with the guns.
and dont forget the butcher serving up pounds of bacon to each customer.
This idea is no stranger than yours, but is interesting to think about.
Except the dancing employees.

 

[bingley]

Competing purely on price is a loser. Anyone can call around and price check. You have to win on SERVICE. You can deliver to the customer a superior overall experience this is a much better VALUE.

Thanks for the tip. I now know how to beat Wal-Mart. Those suckers will never know what hit 'em!

 

[jmiller676]

It doesn't matter what business you're in but, you will always do more for the customer than what they are actually going to be paying for. If anyone has ever done quoting you will know how you lower cost of x and raise cost of y to get an overall lower z for the customer while still covering overhead and making a profit.

 

[bingley]

If i am understanding this correctly, you want a cover charge to look at the guns?
you are turning a gun shop into a strip club?
I like it! How about a 1 gun min purchase? Loud music, smokey room, watered down drinks,and gun shop employees doing dances with the guns.
and dont forget the butcher serving up pounds of bacon to each customer.
This idea is no stranger than yours, but is interesting to think about.
Except the dancing employees.

If you pay $20, you can field strip a gun of your choice for the length of a song in a semi-private booth. You may be able to run a finger at the entrance of the chamber, maybe even try the gun out for Mexican carry. Discharging is possible, I guess, if you're like a teenage boy, but I wouldn't know. Depending on the store, the clerk, and the gun, sometimes you can get more mileage taking the gun to the VIP room.

There are all kinds of guns for you to pick from -- black ones, platinum ones, some from former communist countries that just won't quit, and even some from Brazil (Italian clones). Some with big, almost impossible .50 caliber, some with lithe, nubile .22. Some are double-stacked with a very thick grip. Others are more athletic and statuesque like a 1911. Some would let you smack the bottom to make sure the magazine is properly seated, but you may have to pay an extra fee. Others, like certain revolvers, could "accidentally" pop open the wheel.

Sometimes you fall in love with one but your wife won't let you do anything because the budget is tight. So you keep going back, and they know you as a regular for that gun. One day you walk in, and someone is walking off with your beloved gun to the VIP room, completely pissing you off. You wait and wait and wait, while fondling the other guns that clerk directs you to. But it's just not the same, because they're not the gun you love. Then when your gun is free, it's got the other guys grease all over it, or so you imagine. Heck, sometimes when you go at the end of the shift, you can tell the gun is a little tired and needs some TLC in the form of CLP.

Occasionally you offer to buy accessories for the gun, and it's a big decision because you want it to be "good for the gun." At the end it probably doesn't matter to the store as long as it's expensive. And you never walk away with the gun. You just pay for the "service."

 

[the1kidd03]

Wow, tough crowd. Rebutting being condescended to makes one condescending? Do you see a tiny bit of irony there?

I never said anything about being the only one. I wouldn't have even mentioned it, but for the superiority complex on display by those who wanted to discredit not just an idea for a gun shop, but discredit me personally, my own education, and even the idea of education itself.

I'm not any kind of expert, and I've never claimed to be. But I didn't roll of the turnip truck either, and people don't get the opportunities I've had by dumb luck.

One can write rebuttals without retaliatory condescension. I've done it a great many times and typically your further points are better heard afterwards. Part of the "being the bigger man" concept which people subcounsciously believe in.

 

[the1kidd03]

And obviously gun forums don't either.

On the contrary, communicating on forums like this helped me make the very difficult transition back into the civilian lifestyle and "re-learn" how to communicate with civilians whom have different mindsets.

 

[the1kidd03]

Sorry, the 1kidd03-- I just got to read our post #105 response to my OP.

I gotta say-- it was well-stated and considered. And I know YOUR time in writing wasn't free. What do I owe you?

Free. I don't charge for simply helping fellow man.

 

[Hemingway]

Regardless of all of the attacks against Hohn here, the fact remains and is indisputable: many, many people are willing to pay more for better service. That is a fact. Maybe not INGO people or garage sale people or Craigslist people or Walmart people, but there are large sections of the population that do.

You can go buy secondhand Craftsman tools at a pawnshop, but that doesn't keep Snap-on from making money hand over fist at over 15x the price. You can get a wallet full of free credit cards but the platinum American Express is still going strong with its $400 annual fee.

Whether a cover charge is the proper way to ENSURE enough customer service to make it work can be debated. But there are a whole host of businesses in many industries that work based on charging more for service, exclusivity and membership. Maybe a yearly gold membership that comes with other benefits (like range time, gun cleaning, etc) might be better? I don't know.

You guys seem to be ok with a store charging $15 more for a gun, but not $5 to keep non-serious guys away.

This thread has convinced me even more that I'd be willing to pay just to shop at a place that isn't full of know-it-all's in a perpetual state of just kicking the tires.

(I'd prefer a sign that said "$5 entry fee" to a sign that said "No loaded guns". That's the reason I've never gone in Bare Arms. You want me to unload my gun?! Yeah right!)

 

[jmiller676]

If you pay $20, you can field strip a gun of your choice for the length of a song in a semi-private booth. You may be able to run a finger at the entrance of the chamber, maybe even try the gun out for Mexican carry. Discharging is possible, I guess, if you're like a teenage boy, but I wouldn't know. Depending on the store, the clerk, and the gun, sometimes you can get more mileage taking the gun to the VIP room.

There are all kinds of guns for you to pick from -- black ones, platinum ones, some from former communist countries that just won't quit, and even some from Brazil (Italian clones). Some with big, almost impossible .50 caliber, some with lithe, nubile .22. Some are double-stacked with a very thick grip. Others are more athletic and statuesque like a 1911. Some would let you smack the bottom to make sure the magazine is properly seated, but you may have to pay an extra fee. Others, like certain revolvers, could "accidentally" pop open the wheel.

Sometimes you fall in love with one but your wife won't let you do anything because the budget is tight. So you keep going back, and they know you as a regular for that gun. One day you walk in, and someone is walking off with your beloved gun to the VIP room, completely pissing you off. You wait and wait and wait, while fondling the other guns that clerk directs you to. But it's just not the same, because they're not the gun you love. Then when your gun is free, it's got the other guys grease all over it, or so you imagine. Heck, sometimes when you go at the end of the shift, you can tell the gun is a little tired and needs some TLC in the form of CLP.

Occasionally you offer to buy accessories for the gun, and it's a big decision because you want it to be "good for the gun." At the end it probably doesn't matter to the store as long as it's expensive. And you never walk away with the gun. You just pay for the "service."

You have issues don't you?

 

[the1kidd03]

Let's try this amendment to the OP:


What if instead of a "cover charge" you would offer a dedicated appointment time with guaranteed priority for a fee?

Say, I will block out 2:00 and drop what I'm going to attend to you for $10 or something...

Any better?

I would say no. Better, but no. People don't want to pay for things which they cannot hold in their hands. This is demonstrated well in the popularity of training. There are infinitely greater number of factors which also contribute to that, but that is a factor.

Most people would rather pay the slightly higher price in the items they purchase to cover the added cost of great service. Bradis is an excellent example of this (no offense to them). Are they slightly higher than other options such as online? Yes, but they are a bricks and mortar store with overhead too. There are two shops in the area which can competitively compete with them in price. They, on average run 3rd to them in pricing, but not by much at all. What they win people out on is the level of service they provide, customer interaction (for free mind you), and their better selection.

People will pay a premium, at least slightly, for better service but not if it is perceived to be an "added" or possibly "unecessary" cost. For what you describe here, most would rather go to a different shop and find someone they know who is familiary with firearms to help them, and that is the case most of the time anyway.

Regardless, the level of service you are proposing would again require a considerable amount of time for employees to be helping and teaching new shooters on a range to learn what really works for certain people and what doesn't. That is a tremendous added cost and it is unlikely you will get that from a counter salesman without paying for it somehow. Hence, the prices will not be as low as you would like.

 

[OiRadio47]

Maybe instead of a cover charge you could have an express counter for customers who know what they want and want to get in and out so they can hit the range with their new gun.

My thoughts exactly. If i am walking in a gun shop, I am there to buy something. I know what I want before I get to the shop. A gun or ammo, I don't need a salesmen to talk me into anything I want or don't want.

Have a line for quick sales. If someone walks up to the quick sale counter, a employee should tell the tire kicker he will be right back.

I would buy more ammo and accessories from the LGS if service was better. Would rather buy stuff online than wait around at a gun shop for help, while some douche ties up the sales help just to bullsh!t because he doesn't have a life!

 

[the1kidd03]

Regardless of all of the attacks against Hohn here, the fact remains and is indisputable: many, many people are willing to pay more for better service. That is a fact. Maybe not INGO people or garage sale people or Craigslist people or Walmart people, but there are large sections of the population that do.

You can go buy secondhand Craftsman tools at a pawnshop, but that doesn't keep Snap-on from making money hand over fist at over 15x the price. You can get a wallet full of free credit cards but the platinum American Express is still going strong with its $400 annual fee.

Whether a cover charge is the proper way to ENSURE enough customer service to make it work can be debated. But there are a whole host of businesses in many industries that work based on charging more for service, exclusivity and membership. Maybe a yearly gold membership that comes with other benefits (like range time, gun cleaning, etc) might be better? I don't know.

You guys seem to be ok with a store charging $15 more for a gun, but not $5 to keep non-serious guys away.

This thread has convinced me even more that I'd be willing to pay just to shop at a place that isn't full of know-it-all's in a perpetual state of just kicking the tires.

(I'd prefer a sign that said "$5 entry fee" to a sign that said "No loaded guns". That's the reason I've never gone in Bare Arms. You want me to unload my gun?! Yeah right!)

Now HERE, he's on to something. Added benefits. You will not cut your POTENTIAL client base so drastically if there was an actual physical benefit to fees such as a membership.

 

[bingley]

You have issues don't you?

Issues? No, sir. I'm just passionate about a certain fiery double-stacker.

 

[Deet]

Hohn I am sorry that many people want to bash your idea without offering an alternative. I would be glad to work in your new shop, let me know when and where. A small amount charged to fondle a selection of guns is a fabulous idea. Count me in. Let me assure you that the reason most of us like the 1500 and Gander Mountain isn't because of the prices, but because we have a good chance of fondling a lot of guns without having to get a salesman to show it to us. One serious modification to your idea that would sell tons of guns is to make them accessible to customers. Your new shop could have a wall of guns on display, each gun would be cabled to the wall, but still able to be picked up and held. Customers could walk up to the wall and fondle guns, and the salesman can be out from behind the counter assisting them. The guns would be hard to steal (they are cabled to the wall) and your salesman can help with questions that the customer has about a particular gun. I don't have a MBA and my english skills aren't great, but I think you are on the right path. Good luck, finally someone really wants to help customers, for that I say $5 is well worth it.