HVAC guys, is this filter housing too small?

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  • ghitch75

    livin' in the sticks
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    Dec 21, 2009
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    I was the general contractor for my one custom house. A personal friend of mine was a Mechanical engineer with heat transfer as a specialty. He made his living designing the mechanicals for nuclear power plants. I showed three different sheet metal shops the prints and specs before I found one that would even bid on the job. The others said "you don't need that much" they didn't even want the work for any price. The old guy that did the work said it was a joy to do it right. It also cost about 3 x as much money. The upside is that the furnace ran very quietly, you never heard the blower, and there were no hot spots/cold spots anywhere in the house in the winter or the summer. I think it was worth the money. You only have to pay for it once for the life of the house.

    The "great discount delusion" strikes again. So many people have opted for the cheapest way to go even if it is inferior, that those who are willing to pay for top quality cannot even find it.

    didn't spare a dime on my new house........6 zone in-floor radiant.....1 zone variable speed air handler 16seer 2 speed A/C......returns in every room....
     

    Rookie

    Grandmaster
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    Sep 22, 2008
    18,189
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    Kokomo
    When I did my house I did not even live in it. It was a friends house. He was remodeling and I was involved. I started with a clean sheet of paper and did it right. Returns in every room. Ample supply....the entire 9 yards. Same end result......comfort.

    I have not been able to give that level of work in 10 years. No one wants to pay for it yet they are not totally happy with the bargain basement results. When it is a competition to get the work concessions have to be made. Tripping over $5 bills to pick up quarters.

    This is why I'm doing my own installation.
     

    looney2ns

    Master
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    Jan 2, 2011
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    Evansville, In

    They replaced the roof top units in a commercial building I used to lease. I didn't get to choose the contractor, the landlord did.

    They installed the new curb upside down first go around, had to bring the crane back to fix it.

    After they got it all good to go. I find next day to have no heat from 2 of the 3 units.

    They come back, it's your thermostats. What? They worked just fine until you monkeys came along. You either A, did not hook them up correct or you fried them while hooking them up.

    Two days they couldn't figure out what was wrong.

    Owner got belligerent with me that it was stats that was the problem.

    I lived 100 miles away from the site.
    I drove up, got out my trusty multimeter, only 18 volts being supplied to the stats. Below stats specs, stats that had worked just fine the previous 9 years.

    They couldn't figure out how to fix it. Really?

    This is among other fun and games I had with them. They should be banished from HVAC land.

    Idiots.
     

    ghitch75

    livin' in the sticks
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    118   0   0
    Dec 21, 2009
    13,515
    83
    Greene County
    They replaced the roof top units in a commercial building I used to lease. I didn't get to choose the contractor, the landlord did.

    They installed the new curb upside down first go around, had to bring the crane back to fix it.

    After they got it all good to go. I find next day to have no heat from 2 of the 3 units.

    They come back, it's your thermostats. What? They worked just fine until you monkeys came along. You either A, did not hook them up correct or you fried them while hooking them up.

    Two days they couldn't figure out what was wrong.

    Owner got belligerent with me that it was stats that was the problem.

    I lived 100 miles away from the site.
    I drove up, got out my trusty multimeter, only 18 volts being supplied to the stats. Below stats specs, stats that had worked just fine the previous 9 years.

    They couldn't figure out how to fix it. Really?

    This is among other fun and games I had with them. They should be banished from HVAC land.

    Idiots.

    their a bunch of bone heads.....i get to mop up a lot of their work....
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    their a bunch of bone heads.....i get to mop up a lot of their work....

    I have a saying that fits these situations.
    If everyone did their job right....the 1st time.....we would not have as much to do and less opportunity to look like hero's.....:)

    Installers by definition are not all that smart. Service tech/installers understand what is what and how these units actually run.
    Pick your poison wisely. Low bid is usually not all that great a deal.
     

    sig-guy

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    1   0   0
    Mar 2, 2013
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    How do you figure out how big to make the supply piping going from the rooms to the heater/ac unit?

    Starts with a Manual J 'load calculation'.

    To the OP:
    Either use the cheap fiberglass filters or have a 5" media filter installed in the return duct. I'd say the 20x20 filter is probably not adequate for the furnace which its installed.

    BTW, if the filter is being pulled on hard, the filter is too restrictive. Not the supply/return ducting.
     
    Last edited:

    sig-guy

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    Mar 2, 2013
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    Lets clarify this statement, as I don't think you typed what you was thinking.

    Air flow.
    If it is sucking hard at the filter it is a restriction [strike]in[/strike] with the [strike]return[/strike] filter.

    Now, if it's sucking hard at the filter access (door, slot in this case) the return is too small. The supply ducting wouldn't come into play here.
     

    sig-guy

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    Mar 2, 2013
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    no matter if is a HE gas furnace,heat pump or any forced air system if the supply and return is sized right the pleated filters will work just as good as the hog hair/faucet filters.....over 90% of systems i run into for service calls is a duct related or just dirty......many many many HVAC companies out have no idea what a duct calculator is......as one i was on one today they had 2 8"x10" ducts for supply on a 3 1/2 ton 100,000 btu 90+ furnace and 2 8" flex ducts for returns!!!!!! ...was just installed this last summer......

    :wow: Geez, I thought everybody knew you need 1- 8" per ton and 1- 4" per half. :scratch:

    and they wonder why it wasn't heating right??????........

    The furnace is too small... :rofl:
     

    looney2ns

    Master
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    1   0   0
    Jan 2, 2011
    2,891
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    Evansville, In
    I have a saying that fits these situations.
    If everyone did their job right....the 1st time.....we would not have as much to do and less opportunity to look like hero's.....:)

    Installers by definition are not all that smart. Service tech/installers understand what is what and how these units actually run.
    Pick your poison wisely. Low bid is usually not all that great a deal.

    :+1:

    The sad part is, the owner was on site the entire time "supervising".

    Gee, you suppose the fact that he was related to the landlord had anything to do with him getting the job? Nah, that never happens. :)

    He's been in the business for 50 plus years. Just ask him, he'll tell you. Nope, on second thought you don't have ask him. I heard that line during arguments over their incompetence.

    Serves them right, they've been back 3 times to have to do warranty work on them. Control boards failing.
     

    ghitch75

    livin' in the sticks
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    118   0   0
    Dec 21, 2009
    13,515
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    Greene County
    :+1:

    The sad part is, the owner was on site the entire time "supervising".

    Gee, you suppose the fact that he was related to the landlord had anything to do with him getting the job? Nah, that never happens. :)

    He's been in the business for 50 plus years. Just ask him, he'll tell you. Nope, on second thought you don't have ask him. I heard that line during arguments over their incompetence.

    Serves them right, they've been back 3 times to have to do warranty work on them. Control boards failing.

    more than likely ran phone wire for T-stat wire and over amping the boards......ask me how i know.....
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    you know.....:):

    :yesway:

    When Lennox came out with their 1st logic system they specified shielded plenum cable to the room sensors and they not be tie wrapped to conduit with live circuits.
    Had 10 roof tops on a movie theater that were going crazy. After an entire day I found in the manual where it said no standard shielded stat wire. It was obvious in the unit it was used. I returned the next day with the gear to get up in the ceiling in the theaters and it was loaded with the good old brown un-shielded wire. It was tie wrapped along the power conduits to the units and ran across the top of florescent lights. Just pulling it off the lights and conduit, routing away from the light ballasts got the units settled down. The original installing contractor got to come in and run new wire. Problem solved.
     
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