Hypothetical out of state transfer question

[Mattroth54]

Indeed. There has to be a transfer in the state of the transferee. As long as the firearm gets through the door legally, how it gets there is largely irrelevant.

The confusion here is generated by adding a middleman to do the interstate transport. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from legally transporting your own firearms to ANY FFL and either selling them to said FFL, or having them transferred to a legal resident in the same state as the FFL doing the transfer.

The only thing I have ever been asked for is ID so the FFL can show where it came from before enteting their shop.

From my own experience I would contact an FFL in Indiana and explain what you want to do and see if they will be willing to do it, but there shouldn't be any problems, especially if this is between two free states. A few states have registration schemes where you must be able to prove you have divested yourself of a firearm. OP, where is your Aunt residing?

Pennsylvania.

 

[HKUSP]

I am unaware of anything that would need to be done in PA on her end. Does she have a PA LTCF? If so, as long as she transported the guns in accordance with the transport laws of the three states involved I see nothing wrong here.

 

[Mattroth54]

I am unaware of anything that would need to be done in PA on her end. Does she have a PA LTCF? If so, as long as she transported the guns in accordance with the transport laws of the three states involved I see nothing wrong here.

This thread has directed me to further reading. I’m coming to the same conclusion. Only an Indiana FFL needs to be involved. Not sure if she has ltch for PA. Doubtful. I’ll read the laws around transport in trunk/case/etc for PA/WV/OH/IN. It’ll be a while before anything moves forward. I’m still open to other thoughts and opinions.

 

[HKUSP]

If you use the Federal standard for private transport you should be ok. (Unloaded, in a locked case, in the trunk or out of reach of the driver).

The only thing that comes to mind on your end is if there are multiple handguns transferred to you at the same FFL within a certain time period of time it will generate a report to the ATF but it's still not illegal to do so. I'll have to look up the specifics on that one.

Edit: Here it is. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-multiple-firearms-sales

 

[Route 45]

How about finding a good-sized shop in her state that does consignment sales? Might make a little less money, but seems like a good way to avoid a lot of hassle.

 

[John3354]

I would like to add one thing, at the FFL I use the transfer fee can be a batch process. If I transfer one gun or 10 guns it is just $25. It is not $25 per firearm. As long as I do them all at once it is all covered under the same fee. Even if they come from separate sources, it is just one fee. I have even let the stack up for two weeks before so I can do multiple, still one fee.

YMMV of course, each FFL is free to do it how they wish, which is why it pays to shop around.

 

[Mattroth54]

How about finding a good-sized shop in her state that does consignment sales? Might make a little less money, but seems like a good way to avoid a lot of hassle.

This is also a good idea I hadn’t considered. I’ll do checking.

 

[Mattroth54]

I would like to add one thing, at the FFL I use the transfer fee can be a batch process. If I transfer one gun or 10 guns it is just $25. It is not $25 per firearm. As long as I do them all at once it is all covered under the same fee. Even if they come from separate sources, it is just one fee. I have even let the stack up for two weeks before so I can do multiple, still one fee.

YMMV of course, each FFL is free to do it how they wish, which is why it pays to shop around.

Which shop does this?

 

[John3354]

Parabellum in Avon. I think the largest number of transfers I did at once there was 8 firearms and they did them all for $25.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Consignment in PA or personal transport to an FFL here in IN will be the best bet on how to do things 100% completely by the book.

Call around to a few shops in your general area, OP, and inquire if they'd do a "batch" transfer to you once you know how many pieces there are/will be.

Can also inquire if she needs to be physically present - or if a signed affidavit of ownership (Transferring to you) and a copy of her PA DL would suffice. This would almost be akin to those firearms arriving at the FFL via a courier service - only you are the courier service (should you go get them and transport them back).

It'd probably be easier if she came with the firearms, however.

Again - the above is how to go about doing things via the letter of the law.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you get the specs and pictures and list them on gun broker, whoever buys the gun can absorb the shipping and send their recieving FFl info to an FFL that you and your aunt can contact local to her.

1. Contact a FFL local to your aunt.
2. List each gun on gun broker with the shipping cost specified by your local FFL.
3. When a gun sells anywhere in the US your FFL sends it to their FFL

Little fuss little muss.

This seems like the path of least resistance. GB is way better than EBay in many ways. (not that I'm talking about firearms on EBay)

Legally, your aunt can ship them herself to the dealer out of state, but that requires UPS or FedEx, a dealer can use USPS which may have lower rates; so there's not much savings in DIY shipping. You may be able to find a dealer near her that's willing to sell on consignment both in-shop and online (aka GunBroker).

Yes.
Federal law prevents this.
The seller must transfer them from the state in which they reside.

LOLWUT?

Aunt brings guns to Indiana, they both go to FFL dealer in Indiana, transfers done - GTG.

As stated, shop around for the best deal on fees for a lot (aka batch) of firearms.


PS - This isn't really a hypothetical situation, is it?

 

[Mattroth54]

Perfect. I’m looking to be by the book and efficient as possible, in that order. Parabellum is in my backyard...I’ll check with them. If that doesn’t work out, consignment in her town will be next.

 

[Mattroth54]

I wonder if criminals and those with ill intent always jump through these hoops to ensure compliance with all the red tape?

 

[LarryC]

I wonder if criminals and those with ill intent always jump through these hoops to ensure compliance with all the red tape?

Absolutely NOT! There are probably as many sales in Taverns, alleys etc., by the criminal element as there are sales by the honest folks like us that jump through all the hoops to insure we are legal. I am 77 YO, and have in the past seen many sales negotiated in bars. I haven't
frequented bars for several years but am sure the same sales happen today. The number of undocumented firearm's would amaze many people.

Remember, the laws we are saddled with today has not existed for very many years, most were enacted in 1968 as I recall. I believe many of the WW-2 vets brought back 1911's when the war was over. In addition you could purchase firearms from magazines for little money from magazines, Sears, Wards and other catalog sales and have them mailed to you without any issues prior to 68. There are also many firearms that were stolen in the past. I'm also sure there are many "straw purchases" still made.

Those who do not follow the law can easily acquire a firearm, as has been proven by all the shootings by felons in the news today.

 

[E7Wrangler]

Interesting thread. So, truly hypothetical, if I go to another state to visit family for Christmas and family member gifts me a gun am I supposed to go through an FFL for that transfer? Not some commi state but a normal state with no license or permit needed to purschase, own or transport a firearm. Person hands me gun and says Merry Christmas while we are both in the same state of which I am not a resident but I then return home to state of residence with firearm what have I done illegally? No sarcasm here folks truly interested in response and yes this is hypothetical (one can always hope for a great Christmas present though).

 

[John3354]

It appears that it would have to go through a FFL. The NRA Blog has a good article on the subject.

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-giving-someone-a-gun/

However, if you want to give a firearm to someone who lives in another state, you are required to go through an FFL. Transfers between non-FFL residents of different states cannot be done any other way. Above all, make sure to consult all applicable state laws but reviewing the NRA-ILA website before you give someone a firearm.

 

[Mattroth54]

Interesting thread. So, truly hypothetical, if I go to another state to visit family for Christmas and family member gifts me a gun am I supposed to go through an FFL for that transfer? Not some commi state but a normal state with no license or permit needed to purschase, own or transport a firearm. Person hands me gun and says Merry Christmas while we are both in the same state of which I am not a resident but I then return home to state of residence with firearm what have I done illegally? No sarcasm here folks truly interested in response and yes this is hypothetical (one can always hope for a great Christmas present though).

You have illegally transferred a firearm between residents of two different states. Hypothetically.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download

This link provided me much clarity. For what it’s worth and what this thread exposed, there’s a LOT of confusion on this matter. I’ve had a few FFL’s give me direction 180 from this document...”You’re reciprocal LTCH covers you to take possession and transport handguns from Pennsylvania to Indiana...private party transfer, no FFL needed” is a theme I’ve heard repeated more than once. This is wrong. It’s very clear FFL transfer is a must. Options for how the guns can get to that FFL is still somewhat a mystery. I’m not sure if I can carry them in myself, as the courier, or if the out of state resident must haul them into the Indiana FFL. I’ve emailed the ATF hoping for further direction.

I will learn and follow all laws regarding this transfer, but one has to wonder, how the hell would any authority differentiate ownership between any gun in this collection and the Sig365 I carried on my hip to and from Pennsylvania last week?

 

[JettaKnight]

This link provided me much clarity. For what it’s worth and what this thread exposed, there’s a LOT of confusion on this matter. I’ve had a few FFL’s give me direction 180 from this document...”[Your] reciprocal LTCH covers you to take possession and transport handguns from Pennsylvania to Indiana...private party transfer, no FFL needed” is a theme I’ve heard repeated more than once. This is wrong. It’s very clear FFL transfer is a must. Options for how the guns can get to that FFL is still somewhat a mystery. I’m not sure if I can carry them in myself, as the courier, or if the out of state resident must haul them into the Indiana FFL. I’ve emailed the ATF hoping for further direction.

I will learn and follow all laws regarding this transfer, but one has to wonder, how the hell would any authority differentiate ownership between any gun in this collection and the Sig365 I carried on my hip to and from Pennsylvania last week?

Abramski could tell you a few ways...

 

[spec4]

FWIW, I transferred a gun to a relative in TX. Went to an ffl here and he said I should see if the TX ffl would accept the gun directly from me. Turns out he would so I didn't have to use an IN ffl. Just went to UPS main office and sent it to the TX ffl.

 

[Mattroth54]

Abramski could tell you a few ways...

I wasn’t aware of this until now. Very interesting. Seems he pissed off the wrong person somewhere along the way.