I asked myself an interesting question today, help wanted.

[EvilKidsMeal]

so i went to work today, i work at a hardware store pretty close to my house, and it was just another day. then a LEO came in and asked my co-worker where the owner was. i thought maybe it was about some fund raiser or raffle type thing for his department because that has happened many times before and the store usually donates something. so i didnt think anything of it until i heard the LEO asking him about a truck. more specifically if he can identify it. i noticed he had a few pieces of paper he was showing the owner that were of the same model truck but of different years. so i just kinda listened in for a while.

well later the other manager brought it up and asked if i had heard about it. i said no so he told me that yesterday a man came in and stole 2 power drills right in front of both managers and the owner actually confronted him outside the store. well it ended up that the guy fled and the owner chased after him in his truck.

they havnt caught him yet, but my question is if it would have been me who conronted him outside the store as he was clearly trying to flee (his truck was parked right outside the door and running) would i legally be able to pull my gun with the intent of holding him there until the police came?

no i would not shoot him i know you probably cant do that in this situation, so dont say anything about that. i was just wondering if you could hold him at gunpoint until the police showed up. if he ran obviously i would reholster and either chase or wait for the police. but i asked myself this cause i wasnt sure if me being at work would affect it. its not my property so i dont know if pulling my gun could be justified.

i wasnt at work when this happened i was just wondering what if i was and could have done something.

 

[Joe Williams]

So, what would you have done if you pulled your gun, he laughed in your face, and kept going?

No, you can't shoot him for stealing the store's property. And you can't threaten to do so, either.

No sense in pulling a gun unless the legal requirements to shoot someone have been met (they are quite liberal in Indiana, and they weren't met in this case,) and you are planning to shoot them.

 

[PatriotPride]

So, what would you have done if you pulled your gun, he laughed in your face, and kept going?

No, you can't shoot him for stealing the store's property. And you can't threaten to do so, either.

No sense in pulling a gun unless the legal requirements to shoot someone have been met (they are quite liberal in Indiana, and they weren't met in this case,) and you are planning to shoot them.

Agreed 100%. Also, no sense in endangering yourself over someone else's property.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

no i would not shoot him i know you cant do that in this situation, so dont say anything about that.......

if he ran obviously i would reholster and either chase or wait for the police.

cut down..

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

and i didnt say i would have done this. the very first thing i thought was if it could get me into trouble. i could see where it could but i could see where it wouldnt as well. that may just be my thoughts on it so thats why i asked. not to mention i dont even carry at work so that couldnt have happened either way. i was just wondering to myself.

so please dont reply as if you are assuming i would have pulled my gun.

 

[Armed Eastsider]

No but if he was 15 you could put the dull end of a knife to his throat.

Oops wrong thread

 

[patton487]

Even if you could legally, it would not be advisable. Why would you want to go through the possible legal ramifications of pulling on someone who is NOT threatening you, over a couple of drills that don't even belong to you.

I'm not sure how old you are, and I don't mean anything disparaging. If that is something you would seriously considered doing. You might want to rethink a few things and read some books on carrying a firearm. Masaad Ayoob has some great books on the subject, including "In the gravest extreem" (i think that's right)

 

[Que]

No, you cannot.

 

[jbombelli]

IC 35-33-6-2
Probable cause; detention; procedure; statements by juveniles
Sec. 2. (a) An owner or agent of a store who has probable cause to believe that a theft has occurred or is occurring on or about the store and who has probable cause to believe that a specific person has committed or is committing the theft:
(1) may:
(A) detain the person and request the person to identify himself or herself;
(B) verify the identification;
(C) determine whether the person has in the person's possession unpurchased merchandise taken from the store;
(D) inform the appropriate law enforcement officers; and
(E) inform the person's parents or others interested in the person's welfare that the person has been detained; but
(2) shall not ask the person to make a statement that acknowledges that the person committed the theft or conversion or waives any of the person's legal rights if:
(A) the person is less than eighteen (18) years of age; and
(B) the person has not been afforded an opportunity to have a meaningful consultation with his or her parent, guardian, custodian, or guardian ad litem.
(b) A statement acknowledging that a child committed theft or conversion in violation of subdivision (a)(2) cannot be admitted as evidence against the child on the issue of whether the child committed a delinquent act or a crime.
(c) The detention must:
(1) be reasonable and last only for a reasonable time; and
(2) not extend beyond the arrival of a law enforcement officer or two (2) hours, whichever first occurs.
As added by Acts 1981, P.L.298, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1982,



Now. I'm not sure what level of force you're allowed to use to detain someone in this context, but REST ASSURED YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DETAIN THEM. But I highly doubt you're allowed to pull a weapon on someone to do so.

This is probably why LP guys usually work in teams. It's easier to detain someone without using weapons when there's 3 or 4 of you, and one of them.

 

[SSGSAD]

Even if you could legally, it would not be advisable. Why would you want to go through the possible legal ramifications of pulling on someone who is NOT threatening you, over a couple of drills that don't even belong to you.

I'm not sure how old you are, and I don't mean anything disparaging. If that is something you would seriously considered doing. You might want to rethink a few things and read some books on carrying a firearm. Masaad Ayoob has some great books on the subject, including "In the gravest extreem" (i think that's right)

Yes, that is right, that is a GREAT book...

 

[DaKruiser]

Jbombelli, that makes things much more interesting. I wonder what kind of or how much force you can use to hold someone? If you put your hands on them is that going to be battery?

 

[jbombelli]

Jbombelli, that makes things much more interesting. I wonder what kind of or how much force you can use to hold someone? If you put your hands on them is that going to be battery?

I don't know. I never worked in Loss Prevention... that is a question I would ask both the store owners and an attorney, if it was me. But I've seen video on TV many times of LP guys using physical force to prevent a shoplifter from leaving the premises, and don't recall anything ever being said about the LP guys getting into trouble for it.

 

[360]

Simply put, just because you carry a weapon, doesn't give you any "forcible detaining" or arresting powers. You are not the police.

 

[DaKruiser]

It all kind of comes down to what a lock is for then doesn't it! Just keeps a honest person honest. If someone is going to flee, there's nothing you can do. I don't have a problem with it, you always have to remember "what goes around, comes around"!

 

[LawDog76]

Your property or not, no you could not of legally pointed a firearm at him in the situation you described.

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

I'm surprised nobody has brough this up yet.

What do you if you pull your gun, with the intent of detaining, and then he pulls a gun too?

Unless you are going to discharge it, don't even pull it from its holster.

 

[MinuteMan47]

A Goldberg spear would have worked nicely...

 

[E5RANGER375]

OP: dont pull your gun EVER unless you intend to kill someone because you are in fear of your life or someone elses or serious bodily harm. when you pull it, the time for talk and pleases are over. pull it and dont hessitate to kill if you know you were right before you pulled it. i dont care if its a little kid. you will be just as dead if they shoot you.

Pulling a guy for a "tough guy" routine or to play policeman is exactly the attitude this community doesnt want. Thank you for posting your question and for actualy caring about what the right thing to do is. Im sure after you read all these replies you will do the right thing if your ever put into that situation.

 

[Joe Williams]

I don't know. I never worked in Loss Prevention... that is a question I would ask both the store owners and an attorney, if it was me. But I've seen video on TV many times of LP guys using physical force to prevent a shoplifter from leaving the premises, and don't recall anything ever being said about the LP guys getting into trouble for it.

If it turns out the person wasn't shoplifting, the LP guys can go to jail for it, and they and the store can be sued into the ground. That's why they are so careful to make sure that the person was shoplifting before getting rowdy with them.

 

[DesertDoc]

Never ever pull a gun that you are not willing to use. What woud you do if a struggle ensued and you were forced to shoot the suspect that you never had the right to pull your gun on to began with.