I got to come home today: Tale of the double charge

[looney2ns]

I'll leave this here:
Hornady Powder Cop Die

 

[amboy49]

lockout die

I'll leave this here:
Hornady Powder Cop Die

I purchased the COP die for my Hornaday Lock n Load press. It works - but you have to "look" at it every time you pull the handle. I just sent an internet order to Cabela's for an RCBS Lock Out die. If it works as advertised, either too little or too much powder will cause the press to lock up. This will be better, in my opinion, than the COP die.

Wish I would have purchased the Lock Out die and saved my money on the COP die. If you want a bargain on a COP die let me know.

BTW, where are you finding your components ? In your original post you indicated you've loaded 10's of thousands of rounds since the first of the year. I've been reloading pretty diligently and haven't loaded anywhere close to tens of thousands of rounds !

Just for the fun of it I'm going to try a double charge of your powder recipe in a .45 ACP case just to see how much it fills the case.

 

[85t5mcss]

Glad you are able to type the post OP. Glad that no damage was done to you or anyone around you. Takes a big person to admit when they mess up and that's what it sounds like has happened. I use Titegroup as well because I like the way it shoots in my 9mm. I've been using Clays for 45. Neither fills the case much but I watch like you do. Sounds like aggravation/frustration may have gotten to you during setting up the new dies. Lesson learned.

BTW, if you don't want that horrible Titegroup I know someone who will take it off your hands. Me!

How did the guy asking about reloading take it? I think you may have scared him off.

 

[Giddaltti]

Newb here and I appreciate the post. I'll continue to stay focused, and on load!

 

[gopurdue02]

Glad you are able to type the post OP. Glad that no damage was done to you or anyone around you. Takes a big person to admit when they mess up and that's what it sounds like has happened. I use Titegroup as well because I like the way it shoots in my 9mm. I've been using Clays for 45. Neither fills the case much but I watch like you do. Sounds like aggravation/frustration may have gotten to you during setting up the new dies. Lesson learned.

BTW, if you don't want that horrible Titegroup I know someone who will take it off your hands. Me!

How did the guy asking about reloading take it? I think you may have scared him off.

Yip, lesson completely learned.

lol he was pretty startled. I guess he had another buddy he was suppose to be meeting to go over reloading stuff so I am sure they had an interesting conversation I told him I would be doing an INGO posting on it.

 

[gopurdue02]

Just put an RCBS lock out die on order I've had the powder cop, but I've never been a fan of them personally.

 

[Slawburger]

Thanks for posting. I will be extra careful to avoid distractions and look for more possible problem areas after reading your post.

Regarding load development on a progressive press, I only have one press (Dillon XL650) so it does both production and load development. The difference for me is that I don't use it for powder loading on development loads. I set the dies but I insert a manual step.

1) Deprime and size.
2) Prime, Bell mouth and drop powder. This just gives me a bunch of cases with close to the right amount of powder so I don't have to trickle as much.
3) Remove from press.
4) Repeat 5 times for each test load.
5) I then dump the powder from each case (one at a time) onto the powder scale and trickle charge up to the test load. I do this to make sure I know exactly how much powder is in each case. It removes powder drop variation from the test. I keep each group of five together and line up each group in ascending order by powder charge.
6 Insert each case of the same powder weight (group of five) back onto press at the bullet seating station.
7) Seat bullet
8) Crimp bullet
9) Put each of the samples into a MTM box (one column of 5).
10) Repeat inserting cases at bullet seating station for next group of five.
11) Put samples into MTM box (skipping a column after previous group).
12) Test fire at range (after recording in log book and labeling box of course).
13) Set and verify press powder drop after determining which load to try on a larger lot.

Again, thanks for the safety reminder (we all need one occasionally) and glad you are ok. Sorry our lesson came at your expense.

 

[Leo]

5.8 sounds like a pretty high charge for titegroup in a .45 even with the light 185 bullets. I just looked at the Hodgdon site and a quick glance looks like 5.5 is MAX. I only run 4.5gr under a 200 grain bullet.

Glad you have no long term damage. Double check, double check, and then double check again.

Good Luck

 

[Newhoosier]

Thank you for having the stones to post this. It's only through sharing our experinces both good and bad that we can do what we do.

 

[gopurdue02]

5.8 sounds like a pretty high charge for titegroup in a .45 even with the light 185 bullets. I just looked at the Hodgdon site and a quick glance looks like 5.5 is MAX. I only run 4.5gr under a 200 grain bullet.

Glad you have no long term damage. Double check, double check, and then double check again.

Good Luck

I just saw that too. Highly frustrating when you see load difference like that between mannuals. Hornday 9th edition list 6.1 as max. Based upon the hogdon data I should have been around 5.1. However, my loads were extremely hot based upon the chrony readings before it went kaboom. I may try again but more in the 4.8 range first.

 

[XtremeVel]

I just saw that too. Highly frustrating when you see load difference like that between mannuals. Hornday 9th edition list 6.1 as max. Based upon the hogdon data I should have been around 5.1. However, my loads were extremely hot based upon the chrony readings before it went kaboom. I may try again but more in the 4.8 range first.

Glad you are OK... Also glad to hear you are going to continue on.... You are fully capable of loading for decades now without another incident, just always keep your attention and double check everything...

Like another poster already said, I would have a qualified gunsmith look your gun over though... Just to make sure there is no issue you don't see.

Looking in my Lyman # 49, they list the bullet you used ( Hornady 185gr HP/XTP # 45100) along with Titegroup. They did use a shorter OAL then you, but they list 4.9 to start with a max of 5.5....

Again, glad to hear you have learned and are going to continue loading !

 

[Fullmag]

Glad you are man enough to post, not every re-loader would admit to making any mistake, all gun owners need reminders of how careful we should be. We can learn form each other.

Lymans No.49 recommends OAL 1.175, an older Hornady book says OAL 1.185, 185gr JHP's.

Did the action cycle on the round shot a 338fps? Did gun recoil any? Can you remember what it was like? Sounding like that one didn't get any powder and the primer sent the bullet in barrel then another bullet tried to send it out.

 

[atalon]

Glad you are OK! This is why I picked up a RCBS Lockout die. I don't use it as a way of not paying attention. I use it as a double check just because I know it can go wrong like this real easy.

 

[gopurdue02]

Gun cycled fine and recoil felt a bit hot to be honest like the first one. That is why I ignored the reading. Sometimes my Chrony throws out an odd reading at times. If I get two similar readings in a row then that tells me everything is working ok. Chrony'es are sensitive to light changes. Best time to Chrony is on a cloudy day.....and it was sunny and bright that day. The exact load I was running was the Hornady 185 GR HP XTP 45100 which list the COL at 1213. If you follow the Hogdon's load data site is list the coal at the shorter 1.135 and max of 5.5, but that is for a completely different bullet (185 gr SWC 45137) who's COAL does match's hogdon's Hindsight being 20/20 I should have started off around 5.1 and worked up, but I was going off the Hornady load manual and didn't cross reference against Hogdon's website. But my target was always the low 900's to hit the 165 power factor for IDPA. Multiple mistakes were made along the way, but none more serious then double charging the case. Luckily it was an all steel-frame 1911 with plastic grips.

 

[drop45]

Started loading 9mm last night (first attempt at it) going at it with a single stage press for now until I get a hang of everything, charged 9 rounds with what I thought was 5.5gr of 3n37 but just didnt look right, not enough room to seat bullet without compressing the powder. dumped each one out back onto the scale and registered 5.5 gr. double and tripple checked with several manuals and that was the proper charge, but i still wasnt satisfied. Went upstairs took a few puffs of my cigar, you know just to clear my head. then it dawned on me i must have accidentally zeroed the scale with a partial load in it somehow because the last cartridge i emptied actually weighed in at 8.5 grains. don't know if that would have cause a serious problem or not but i am glad i was careful enough go through all the steps several times before i was satisfied.

 

[Fullmag]

My close calls was I set powder measure and loaded 10, checked that with the scales, so loaded some for my 357 sig. At the range noticed some were recoiling more with a big flash. Went back and started weighing every charge found out with that load of Longshot there was variation of almost 2 gr. at any given time. Glad I was not operating at max levels, but with the extra 2 grs. it was over maximum. Since then I have bought powder trickler and weigh every charge. Then bought another powder measure and still weigh every charge.

Just not to long ago was loading then quit for the night so next day went out started back up, did not zero out scales. Changed powders and caliber decided to zero scales because of habit, thinking waste of time but I'll do it anyway. Only to find out that the scales were not zeroed! They were off a minus two tenths! Always zero out the scales before weighing first charge, period.

 

[gopurdue02]

also recommend using two scales if you are using electric scales to make sure they are equal to eachother.

 

[jurassicnarc]

FullMag's observation regarding the low reading on the second round may indicate a bullet stuck in the bore makes sense to me. I had a squib load in heavy traffic at the range, and so couldn't hear the difference; but something just didn't feel right, so I opened up the revolver to find one stuck in the bore just past the forcing cone. Why I didn't just pull that trigger again beats me, but I'm thankful.

 

[T4rdV4rk]

My close calls was I set powder measure and loaded 10, checked that with the scales, so loaded some for my 357 sig. At the range noticed some were recoiling more with a big flash. Went back and started weighing every charge found out with that load of Longshot there was variation of almost 2 gr. at any given time. Glad I was not operating at max levels, but with the extra 2 grs. it was over maximum. Since then I have bought powder trickler and weigh every charge. Then bought another powder measure and still weigh every charge.

Just not to long ago was loading then quit for the night so next day went out started back up, did not zero out scales. Changed powders and caliber decided to zero scales because of habit, thinking waste of time but I'll do it anyway. Only to find out that the scales were not zeroed! They were off a minus two tenths! Always zero out the scales before weighing first charge, period.

Oh my goodness. Using a trickler and weighing every charge for your pistol has to be mind numbing.

 

[meegz]

IIRC Gramps used Clays for his IPSC reloads, always shot real well with the 185 LSWC's he favored