I just luv gubmint

[bobzilla]

Government: Oh you pesky white boomer. Government isn’t there for your convenience. You are there to pay for government. Except. We’ve discovered perpetually increasing debt. We don’t need you anymore. You’re really more of a bother than anything. So why don’t you sod off to some other department and become their annoyance.

I want to argue this but I can find no fallacy in this argument.

 

[CHCRandy]

Well that's one way to close down all but large corporate farms and turn every inch of country into suburbs. I mean, if that's what you want, go for it. I'm outta here in 3 years. y'all continue to destroy rural Indiana all you want.

I don't understand how it would turn it into suburbs? If you have 2 parcels valued at $500K, but 1 pays $800 a year taxes and makes a living off the land and the other pays $5000 just to have a place to live, just seems unfair. If the end goal is for everyone to carry "their fair share".....wouldn't it seem more fair for them to each pay say $2900? I mean, I see many of our farms being turned into subdivisions as it is, since the farmer has incentive when offered $50,000+ an acre by a developer, and our local government has incentive because they can then tax them homes built on the farm 500-800% more than they did when it was farm land. It seems taxing farmland at it's true value.........would decrease turning the fields into subdivisions......since the local government would already be getting max tax they would be less likely to approve subdivision in rural areas, as they currently do.

 

[CHCRandy]

Yes, I do pay the taxes for the farmer! Is not the cost of all the farmers taxes not included in the price he sells for? If the farmers taxes go up wouldn’t he raise the price to cover the tax increase?

I guarantee you if the property tax goes up, the rent goes up…

A farmer cant just raise the price the market is paying for corn, wheat, beans or to rent his land. The rent is gonna be based on what the renter can afford and the renters need. It all has a limit though. You are not gonna pay $300 an acre rent if you can only make $200 an acre off the crop.

 

[KLB]

I don't understand how it would turn it into suburbs? If you have 2 parcels valued at $500K, but 1 pays $800 a year taxes and makes a living off the land and the other pays $5000 just to have a place to live, just seems unfair. If the end goal is for everyone to carry "their fair share".....wouldn't it seem more fair for them to each pay say $2900? I mean, I see many of our farms being turned into subdivisions as it is, since the farmer has incentive when offered $50,000+ an acre by a developer, and our local government has incentive because they can then tax them homes built on the farm 500-800% more than they did when it was farm land. It seems taxing farmland at it's true value.........would decrease turning the fields into subdivisions......since the local government would already be getting max tax they would be less likely to approve subdivision in rural areas, as they currently do.

You would merely drive up food costs for everyone.

 

[Ingomike]

I don't understand how it would turn it into suburbs? If you have 2 parcels valued at $500K, but 1 pays $800 a year taxes and makes a living off the land and the other pays $5000 just to have a place to live, just seems unfair. If the end goal is for everyone to carry "their fair share".....wouldn't it seem more fair for them to each pay say $2900? I mean, I see many of our farms being turned into subdivisions as it is, since the farmer has incentive when offered $50,000+ an acre by a developer, and our local government has incentive because they can then tax them homes built on the farm 500-800% more than they did when it was farm land. It seems taxing farmland at it's true value.........would decrease turning the fields into subdivisions......since the local government would already be getting max tax they would be less likely to approve subdivision in rural areas, as they currently do.

So you are alleging that the Hendricks county assessor is not assessing farm land at the max they can?

 

[bobzilla]

You would merely drive up food costs for everyone.

Drastically. Currently it is based off of improvements and value. Typical farmland is averaging about $2k/acre.

 

[CHCRandy]

So you are alleging that the Hendricks county assessor is not assessing farm land at the max they can?

Oh no, not at all. They are probably correctly assessing it at the max possible.........but for FARM LAND. My only allegation is no allegation at all........it is a known fact that any of you can confirm. 28 acre farm paid $600 a year tax.....but sold for $1,800,000. It had assessed value of $60,000. All I am saying is give farmland the same assessment value and charge same % rate as residential property.

 

[CHCRandy]

You would merely drive up food costs for everyone.

Why would we drive up food costs? Farmers are one of the few professions in this world where you spend your money 6-8 months before you ever know if you will make even $1, and you will be paid for your product a price that others determine, not what you want for it. Yeah, if the chicken company raises chicken breast prices to Krogers, Krogers just jacks up your price....in that case you pay for it. If a farmer has to pay a fair and equal tax on his farmland.....the market is still just going to pay him for his corn or beans, what the market is paying him.

 

[CHCRandy]

Drastically. Currently it is based off of improvements and value. Typical farmland is averaging about $2k/acre.

How are you gonna drive up food costs? The entire world sets the price of corn or beans or wheat......not the farmer.

 

[CHCRandy]

Drastically. Currently it is based off of improvements and value. Typical farmland is averaging about $2k/acre.

You got any farmland you will sell me for $2000 an acre?

 

[Ingomike]

Oh no, not at all. They are probably correctly assessing it at the max possible.........but for FARM LAND. My only allegation is no allegation at all........it is a known fact that any of you can confirm. 28 acre farm paid $600 a year tax.....but sold for $1,800,000. It had assessed value of $60,000. All I am saying is give farmland the same assessment value and charge same % rate as residential property.

One thing you are doing is conflation, the tax was on farm land, no one paid over $64k for farm land. The sale is for another purpose, that is why it looks so skewed…

 

[Ingomike]

Why would we drive up food costs? Farmers are one of the few professions in this world where you spend your money 6-8 months before you ever know if you will make even $1, and you will be paid for your product a price that others determine, not what you want for it. Yeah, if the chicken company raises chicken breast prices to Krogers, Krogers just jacks up your price....in that case you pay for it. If a farmer has to pay a fair and equal tax on his farmland.....the market is still just going to pay him for his corn or beans, what the market is paying him.

This is part of the problem, those that do not understand are trying to figure things out without full knowledge of even what goes on. This post is based on a simplistic way of thinking. Ever hear of futures? Ever hear of contract pricing?

The produce is in a market, but costs do impact that market…

 

[bobzilla]

You got any farmland you will sell me for $2000 an acre?

We did about 11 years ago. That's what the other 90 acres sold for in Putnam county, and what it STILL goes for. Property being overtaken by suburbs and warehouses are artificially inflated intentionally to run out the smaller farmers.

You make the farmer pay $18k per year just to keep the property they have owned for generations, it makes it untenable to be used as farmland and they will be forced to sell out. Look at the actual costs to farm 100 acred of corn. According to this study it costs an average of $825/ acre to buy seed, fuel, fertilzer, weedkillers and labor. So for 100 acres you're talking about $82500 in costs. A good year for corn is about 180bu/acre, at a cost between $4.50-6.50/bu. Averages out to about $990/ acre. So the farmer makes about $165/ac, or $16500 total on that. You're saying that he also now needs to pay more taxes. Say you triple their rated value of $2k to $6k/ acre, now they're paying $6000 a year. So now your total profits off that field are $10k if prices stay high and the yield works out. Otherwise he's now $5k in the hole. to take care of his family of 4, instead of working 500 acres, he now has to magically find 1000 acres to make the same amount of money he did before. But to do that will need more equipment, more people, driving up his costs even more.

You don't see how that will drive up food costs?

 

[jamil]

Oh great passionate one, please regale us with your financial wisdom. Who should pay for the property services these folks receive? I am not without sympathy for your neighbors but who should pay for their property services?

I just had a great idea, we can charge landlords a 100% tax since we all know landlords pay their taxes out of the goodness of their hearts and don’t just pass them on to the tenants, it is a win win…

Fire and police? No problem. Public schools? **** ‘em.

Take the school taxes out and it’s a different ballgame.

 

[phylodog]

Not making excuses, pointing out issues with just doing away with it completely. But in your warped mind, if we don't agree with you we are for taxes and kicking old people to the curb or some other bs strawman you concoct. You cannot discuss this as a reasonable adult so maybe you should step out.

I proposed basing them off of purchase price indefinitely very early on in the thread.

 

[Ingomike]

Fire and police? No problem. Public schools? **** ‘em.

Take the school taxes out and it’s a different ballgame.

If you have been following along here you will see that I have referenced school taxes several times. Though it is a tough issue as most want to keep local control and property taxes are most efficient at that but I prefer we find another way…

 

[bobzilla]

And if you think farmland isn't taking a big hit on property taxes too, you're delusional. Purdue shows that since 2022 their base rate has almost doubled. 2022 was $1290, 23 was $1500, 24 to $1900 and for 2025 that will now be $2280. That's a 77% increase in 3 years.

 

[bobzilla]

I proposed basing them off of purchase price indefinitely very early on in the thread.

and what happens when the housing market crashes again like 2008? When that $500k property is now worth $340k?

 

[Ingomike]

I proposed basing them off of purchase price indefinitely very early on in the thread.

Phylo, this is a good idea, but it seems no idea comes without unintended consequences.

and what happens when the housing market crashes again like 2008? When that $500k property is now worth $340k?

That is why this is so hard. Maybe a cap on increases during contiguous ownership? Then the unintended consequence is what if they want to leave their big house and get a smaller one but the taxes on the smaller are more than the taxes on the big house.

 

[bobzilla]

not to belabor the point any more ... but the average farm size in Indiana is 272 acres. That means their assessed value in 2022 was $350k. For 2025 that will now be $620k. The lowest tax rate for ag exempt in boone county is 1.18%, so in 2022 they paid $4130 in property taxes. For 2025 they will pay $7300.

Now, from the earlier numbers, That 272 acres will cost them $224k to plant, care for and harvest. At $990 income per acre they're looking at a profit of $45k. BUT they also have to pay income tax on that at 22%, so that's a yearly income of $35k. And we want to raise their property taxes because it's not "fair"? I agree it's not fair that they get double taxed. Taxed for the property AND taxed on their income off that property.