"I MISSED"!

[gh2]

Our shooting season is about to end so I thought it would be fun to start a conversation that I hope will get many competitors involved. In addition to having something to talk about, this subject might get some to investigate more than just they're shooting technique.
Any competition shooter has experienced those nasty edge hits on targets that cost him points or time. Just one thirty-second of an inch would have made that steel ring, that C an A , that D a C, or that miss a D. How many of us have said, “I swear that was an A”, only to find the dreaded “close but no cigar” hit?
So here’s my question. Of those that shoot the popular action shooting sports, how many have taken their competition gun / ammo combination and shot several eight or ten round groups, off a rest, to actually see how accurately their gun shoots at 25 yards or more? If you haven't, why?
Please note that I personally know how much effort goes into making a particular pistol shoot 2" or smaller groups at 50 yards so your answers about accuracy need to be honest. If there are claims that I think are questionable there might be a friendly wager made to verify a claim! If you're willing Ain't this fun?????
I'll now hang up and listen to your reply.

 

[rhino]

I've done it with my 9mm Springfield, but not because I wanted to do it! When I first got it years ago, I couldn't keep my shots on a Bianchi/NRA AP target at 25 yards while trying to shoot offhand groups. Two of us then shot it from a rest and still couldn't keep them all on the paper.

Then I had our mutual friend Neil Keller refit the barrel and a new bushing. After that, it shoots fist-sized groups at 25 yards with factory 9mm ammo. The groups were measured with my Mark I eyeball as "good enough."

The only other gun that I remember shooting from a rest was my Colt (a .45) that Darrell Stonebraker built many years ago. I don't remember the size of the groups, but I do recall it was the most accurate handgun I owned.

 

[Josh Ward]

Great thread George!!!

Yes, I've rested my TRP at 25yd. With a load it likes and IF I do my part I can get it inside 2.25" pretty consistantly, sometimes when my trigger finger is really in sync better than that. The gun shoots better than I do, i know that!!

 

[slow1911s]

I need to do more group shooting. It used to be a regular part of my practice sessions. But, since I don't even remember my last live fire practice. Well...there you have it.

While we are on the subject, this is a big reason (1) I enjoy NRA Action Pistol and (2) I'm convinced it did a ton to support my USPSA and 3-gun shooting. Because, when you really get down to it, AP is nothing more than shooting groups on the clock.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I need to do this... Just ain't all that easy for me to A) get to a range and B) find/use the appropriate equipment.

-J-

 

[gh2]

I need to do this... Just ain't all that easy for me to A) get to a range and B) find/use the appropriate equipment.

-J-

A rolled up jacket on a card table and a stool or folding chair works for equipment. Can't help you with the range time.

 

[60Driver]

Benched my Baer on many occasions, boringly accurate at 25 and i would send it back to the man if it was not. For me doing this removes any "it was the guns fault" excuses in my mind. If I "mike" or get a B not an A I know it was the indian not the arrow. Gives me faith in my gear and keeps me focused on improving my skill not tweaking with the weapon.

 

[riverman67]

I did it with my STI when I got it and I found out That it wasn't 'me' that was shooting low at 25 yards . That is why I love adjustable sights ,The groups were just under 3 inches but I am sure the gun can do better than that . I haven't started to tweak a load for it yet
Great Thread ....I need to shoot more groups, I hardly ever do it. Hell I hardly ever find time to get to the range other than matches ,who am I kidding

 

[rvb]

How many of us have said, “I swear that was an A”, only to find the dreaded “close but no cigar” hit?
...
how many have taken their competition gun / ammo combination and shot several eight or ten round groups, off a rest, to actually see how accurately their gun shoots at 25 yards or more?

Probably half of my posts here talk about shooting groups in some form or another... I'm fond of saying you have to be able to shoot accurately slowly before you can expect to shoot accurately fast. You have to know what you and your equipment is capable of. From the perspective of this thread, it both gains confidence in what you can hit, and eliminates equipment as the cause of a miss (ie it's YOUR fault). Once you know your gun shoots a certain level of accuracy, you can only blame yourself for FAILING TO CALL THE SHOT if you thought it was an A and it turns out to be a miss. That 1/32" off the paper is not the fault of the gun... that's like getting busted doing 120mph in a 55 zone, and complaining the radar gun 1% out of calibration.

I do very little shooting off the bench... usually when a gun or a load is new. that's about it. if I feel I'm having an issue and want to rule out my steadiness, I'll bench a gun. A couple of 5 shot groups is all I need. I'm typically not looking for the limit of mechanical accuracy. Whether it's 1" or 2" at 25 yds doesn't matter much in our game. Most of my group shooting is freestyle or SHO/WHO... because it's harder, and because that's what I have to do when the buzzer goes off.

Last time I shot off a bench was when I built my .45. I don't recall exactly, but it grouped ~2.5" at 50yds, w/ factory ammo (been wanting to try again now that I'm loading .45).

I spent quite a bit of time shooting groups the previous season ('09) when I was shooting open, because I struggled with accuracy using the dot (that thing reveals EVERY wobble and imperfection in trigger pull). I finally got my groups down to ~3.5" at 75 yds (freestyle, not benched).

Critically imortant for open shooters, but also somewhat for irons, do you know your zero and your holdovers? Another good reason to shoot groups...

-rvb

 

[Josh Ward]

Benched my Baer on many occasions, boringly accurate at 25 and i would send it back to the man if it was not. For me doing this removes any "it was the guns fault" excuses in my mind. If I "mike" or get a B not an A I know it was the indian not the arrow. Gives me faith in my gear and keeps me focused on improving my skill not tweaking with the weapon.

+1

Exactly

 

[x10]

Keep your shooting up by joining HHRP for bulseye matches through the winter.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I had an old loaner Bianchi Open gun that would do 1" @50 yds and my gun will do 1.5" at 50 yds. It has been witnessed by other posters in this thread, and yes I would prove it, but if you wanna call for "friendly proof" then bring your wallet for a "friendly wager" lol....great thread btw. I have been fairly fortunate that all the matchs guns I have actually shoot pretty well. A bit of load tuning can make most all guns shoot at least decent. FWIW i often have better luck shooting prone than off a bench.

 

[mongo404]

I did this with my 24 and my reloads which seem to be a descent combination. At 25yds got them down under 2" but it took alot of consentration ecspesially with the factory trigger. Never went out to 50yds. Thats something I have to try this winter.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Have benched my G34 many times. Annoys the crap out of me how inconsistent I can be between benching it and shooting offhand. I have taken it out to 50y...it gets pretty ugly...

 

[slow1911s]

I've seen Mike do it...several times. And a list of other people about 150 long.

 

[tnek]

I have had 2 45s that would shoot 1" at 25 off a rest easy. A Wilson and a SVI BUT that is meaningless cause we dont shoot matches of a rest. I shot one or two action pistol matches and it shows very quickly how well you shoot. I went home in shame
Nowdays Im a Canyon Creek 45XD guy and while I have not idea how it shoots of a rest I can shoot it MUCH better than my 2 previous tackdrivers. That is my

 

[mongo404]

I agree with knowing how accurate your gun is off a rest. That way your aware of ecxactly what its capable of. I just dont know if it is important to do it very often. I myself would be more interested in how it does of hand or freestyle. I have been watching and reading alot about how to practice and what to practice. Almost all the pros want you to start your practice session by shooting groups. So thats what we have been doing. I have noticed alot of improvement in my points at the matches the last couple of months. I dont think that it is just from that but simply doing the practice the right way. Although I will shoot 50yds of a rest this winter just to know. Even though I cant remember the last time we shot 50yds in a match. I do know you probably wont see it at ACC for awhile atleast untill we get the rifle bay done. Now Coach might squeeze one or two in at Riley just cause he can.

 

[rhino]

This used to be a bigger issue in USPSA (as gh2 remembers!). Standards at 50 yards we common at any club that had the available space. At my original club near Veedersburg (Coal Creek Gun Club), we shot at 50 yards almost every month. The very first official USPSA stage I shot was the classifier "Long Range Standards" which was shooting from standing, kneeling, and prone at 50. If it wasn't a standards-type stage on paper, it was poppers and US poppers at 50. US poppers at 50 yards are an interesting challenge.

Knowing the accuracy potential of your gun is a good thing. It's also good to know what your point of impact is at 25 and 50 yards, which you can also learn shooting groups, both from a rest and offhand.

I think one of the reason people see a significantly different point of impact shooting offhand vs. from a rest is that they don't hold the gun the same way under both circumstances.

 

[slow1911s]

Shooting from a rest gives you more insight into the mechanical accuracy of your gun and ammo - its potential under the best conditions. Prone is equally as good.

Standing and shooting groups shows the shooter's potential.

For those of us that shoot action games, there is nothing wrong with doing this under the clock. What's the smallest 5 shot group you can shoot in 4 seconds at 10 yds? How does that change when you push that out to 15? 25? Or doing the same in 3 seconds or 5?

What I find group shooting, especially with the time element, does for me is that it helps with tight shots. Like when you have a no shoot covering most of the A zone, or the upper A/B zone. Anyone can hit the A-zone on a wide open target. Can you do it just as fast on a partial?

 

[Josh Ward]

Shooting from a rest gives you more insight into the mechanical accuracy of your gun and ammo - its potential under the best conditions. Prone is equally as good.

Standing and shooting groups shows the shooter's potential.

This is what most people fail to "get" when it comes to "accuracy" I always here this gun is more accurate than that gun.....maybe, maybe not. Perhaps your accuracy potential as an individual shooter is greater with this gun than that gun......