If Russia can get it right, why can't we?

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I was listening to the BBC this morning and apparently French actor Gerard Depardieu has become angry over France raising the top tax rate to 75%. He is moving out of the country.

Story here: Putin offers passport to actor Depardieu, who fled France over taxes - CNN.com

Russian President Vladimir Putin has offered Mr. Depardieu Russian citizenship.

It seems that Russia has a flat 13% tax rate. How is it Russia could come up with a simple and easy tax system where we free market capitalists have failed to simplify our tax system for decades?

I would like to think we could progress (?) toward the Russian tax system sometime in my lifetime.

Just thought I would share this trivial information with everyone.

Regards,

Doug

 

[FMJ]

To All,

I was listening to the BBC this morning and apparently French actor Gerard Depardieu has become angry over France raising the top tax rate to 75%. He is moving out of the country.

Story here: Putin offers passport to actor Depardieu, who fled France over taxes - CNN.com

Russian President Vladimir Putin has offered Mr. Depardieu Russian citizenship.

It seems that Russia has a flat 13% tax rate. How is it Russia could come up with a simple and easy tax system where we free market capitalists have failed to simplify our tax system for decades?

I would like to think we could progress (?) toward the Russian tax system sometime in my lifetime.

Just thought I would share this trivial information with everyone.

Regards,

Doug

We have already "progressed" towards the russian "system" TOO much in my lifetime. Thanks anyway.

 

[mbills2223]

We have already "progressed" towards the russian "system" TOO much in my lifetime. Thanks anyway.

Also worth nothing that Russia isn't exactly none for quality of life or booming economy.

Disclaimer: In no way am I advocating higher taxes. If anything, I want them lowered/abolished, but I don't want anything we do to be modeled after Russia.

 

[poptab]

Flat tax is as bad as fair tax and both are theft no matter how flat or fair.

 

[Birds Away]

Flat tax is as bad as fair tax and both are theft no matter how flat or fair.

How so?

 

[FMJ]

"The suppression of unnecessary offices, of useless establishments and expenses enabled us to discontinue internal taxes. These covering our land with officers and opening our doors to their intrusions, had already begun that process of domiciliary vexation which, once entered, is scarcely to be restrained from reaching successively every article of produce and property." --Thomas Jefferson

"Sound principles will not justify our taxing the industry of our fellow citizens to accumulate treasure for wars to happen we know not when and which might not perhaps happen but from the temptations offered by that treasure." --Thomas Jefferson

"Private fortunes are destroyed by public as well as by private extravagance. And this is the tendency of all human governments." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[T.Lex]

I'm all for looking at "best practices" that work elsewhere. No one country has all the "right" answers.

But, as with most Euro/flat tax schemes, you have to look at more than just income taxes.

Tax Code of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have an 18% VAT, as well as a Uniform Social Tax that can be 26%. There's also a corporate "profit tax" that can be 20%.

It is just a different scheme. There are tradeoffs involved, no matter what.

My $.02.

 

[arthrimus]

Flat tax is as bad as fair tax and both are theft no matter how flat or fair.

I can't tell if you are against income tax as a whole or just very misguided. I hope it's the former, but if not, I'd love to hear your reasoning on that statement.

 

[ViperJock]

How high would a flat tax have to be in order to continue garning the revenue that the Feds get now? And that tax not even enough to cover their spending. (I'm just asking point of fact, no opinions on whether we should be spending that much or not please. Let it please the court we can all agree they should be spending less) I expect that the percent increase on our lower working class would be untenable. Don't get me wrong it would be more "fair," but I'm not sure it would be worth the additional loss of spending money by those who make the least. I think a flat tax would also have to accompany an increase in revenue by another source in order to keep the income rates low enough to prevent the destruction of our lower middle class. (This of course, based on our current level of spending, which, lets be honest, is unlikely to decrease anytime soon)

 

[poptab]

I can't tell if you are against income tax as a whole or just very misguided. I hope it's the former, but if not, I'd love to hear your reasoning on that statement.

My avatar should clear up your confusion. Taxation is theft by another name.
I am against any form of tax reform that is revenue neutral. I am for any tax reform that reduces revenue.

 

[T.Lex]

Out of curiosity, how much would you voluntarily give the US gov't?

 

[Survivalcookie]

How high would a flat tax have to be in order to continue garning the revenue that the Feds get now? And that tax not even enough to cover their spending. (I'm just asking point of fact, no opinions on whether we should be spending that much or not please. Let it please the court we can all agree they should be spending less) I expect that the percent increase on our lower working class would be untenable. Don't get me wrong it would be more "fair," but I'm not sure it would be worth the additional loss of spending money by those who make the least. I think a flat tax would also have to accompany an increase in revenue by another source in order to keep the income rates low enough to prevent the destruction of our lower middle class. (This of course, based on our current level of spending, which, lets be honest, is unlikely to decrease anytime soon)

with a 10 or 12 percent flat tax across the board we would most likely have more money....considering companies like GE made billions and paid millions to accountants to avoid paying any taxes.

 

[Survivalcookie]

I would just like to add that just raising taxes is not the answers...we need higher import taxes, taxes/fines on american companies who have more than 10 percent of their work force over seas. Reductions in government agencies, reductions in government holdings...and I might add these holding should not be sold to foreigner countries. Get rid of stupid government studies. Real health care reform, and less regulations.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

T.Lex burst my bubble...

I was thinking that Russia had come up with a tremendously simple flat tax that would work. I bought into the initial story and I was wrong. Now I have learned something and can improve myself.

By the way, I do NOT care a whit where a good idea comes from. It could come from Russia, China, France, Mexico, or Estonia! Any government that is able to function adequately on a simple and easy to understand taxation system should be looked as a possible model.

Some want lower taxes, as do I. However, we do all understand that our tax rates are the LOWEST they have been in the last about 75 years, right? If we look at the history of taxes since the 1930's the tax rates on the highest income earners has never been lower.

We do spend too much. Waaaayyyyyy too much! We must cut spending if we are ever to get out of debt and have a positive picture to look at in years to come.

We need to cut spending and we need to raise revenues. The gap is too big in between to solve it on one end or the other.

What I would like to see is coming up with a budget for the next fiscal year, say 2014, and determining right now to raise revenues equal to that number PLUS $100 Billion. This would allow us to not go farther into the hole and pay off $100 Billion in debt. At this rate it would only take us 160 years to get out of debt, but at least we would know how long the tunnel was and there would be light at the end.

Back on point I am still disappointed at my error on Russian taxes. I was hoping that someone had figured out an easy way but I guess such is not the case.

Regards,

Doug

 

[firehawk1]

At this rate it would only take us 160 years to get out of debt, but at least we would know how long the tunnel was and there would be light at the end.

"live for today and not tomorrow,
it's still the road that never ends"..... Ozzy Osbourne

 

[Lupin3rd]

Out of curiosity, how much would you voluntarily give the US gov't?

To a government that involves itself in numerous overseas wars, assassinations without due process, and continually intrudes on the liberties of its populace? Nothing.

 

[Bunnykid68]

To All,

T.Lex burst my bubble...

I was thinking that Russia had come up with a tremendously simple flat tax that would work. I bought into the initial story and I was wrong. Now I have learned something and can improve myself.

By the way, I do NOT care a whit where a good idea comes from. It could come from Russia, China, France, Mexico, or Estonia! Any government that is able to function adequately on a simple and easy to understand taxation system should be looked as a possible model.

Some want lower taxes, as do I. However, we do all understand that our tax rates are the LOWEST they have been in the last about 75 years, right? If we look at the history of taxes since the 1930's the tax rates on the highest income earners has never been lower.

We do spend too much. Waaaayyyyyy too much! We must cut spending if we are ever to get out of debt and have a positive picture to look at in years to come.

We need to cut spending and we need to raise revenues. The gap is too big in between to solve it on one end or the other.

What I would like to see is coming up with a budget for the next fiscal year, say 2014, and determining right now to raise revenues equal to that number PLUS $100 Billion. This would allow us to not go farther into the hole and pay off $100 Billion in debt. At this rate it would only take us 160 years to get out of debt, but at least we would know how long the tunnel was and there would be light at the end.

Back on point I am still disappointed at my error on Russian taxes. I was hoping that someone had figured out an easy way but I guess such is not the case.

Regards,

Doug

Doug, I hate to correct you but I believe taxes just went up on the richest with this whole fiscal cliff thingy.

 

[T.Lex]

To a government that involves itself in numerous overseas wars, assassinations without due process, and continually intrudes on the liberties of its populace? Nothing.

Yeah, and that's the problem.

Government, by its nature, cannot please everyone. And, what you propose is really the idea that the people that pay the taxes end up having gov't serve their desires. It becomes a positive feedback loop (more than it already is). The gov't starts doing the things that will make it the most money.

That's bad.

And to the OP - no worries. No one knows everything! I happen to have studied the USSR/Russia for nigh on 25 years now.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Yeah, and that's the problem.

Government, by its nature, cannot please everyone. And, what you propose is really the idea that the people that pay the taxes end up having gov't serve their desires. It becomes a positive feedback loop (more than it already is). The gov't starts doing the things that will make it the most money.

That's bad.

And to the OP - no worries. No one knows everything! I happen to have studied the USSR/Russia for nigh on 25 years now.

We are in a negative feedback loop now, the people that pay no taxes keep voting for more freebies

 

[Lupin3rd]

Yeah, and that's the problem.

Government, by its nature, cannot please everyone. And, what you propose is really the idea that the people that pay the taxes end up having gov't serve their desires. It becomes a positive feedback loop (more than it already is). The gov't starts doing the things that will make it the most money.

That's bad.

And to the OP - no worries. No one knows everything! I happen to have studied the USSR/Russia for nigh on 25 years now.

You operate under the premise that government is necessary and has the moral authority to enact social control.