If the FDA approves the vaccine,will you get jabbed?

[BugI02]

I think you might be giving insufficient 'shrift' to the informed part of informed consent

Rather than try increasingly coercive means to induce me to get vaccinated, why not give me hard data with transparent provenance about the level of risks of all options and allow robust debate

If I have a 2% chance of abnormal clotting leading to stroke or other damage from the vaccine and a 2% chance of similar complication if I contract an active case of WuVid is a much different calculus if those numbers are 0.2% and 2% - or worse yet 2% and 0.2%

Perhaps they should not have so thoroughly burnt down any credibility they had if they planned to rely on that later

 

[phylodog]

As far as the last, that's the cultural war aspect. It's become some symbol of if you trust "them" or not for so many people that it's no longer just a choice on medical care, it's a political and cultural statement as well.

I don't consider it a statement of any kind. It is a simple choice to which a simple "no thank you" should be sufficient. For me, the numbers don't add up and are about as reliable as Indiana weather. There is plenty of data as well as medical experts on both sides of the argument and people should be free to choose who to put their faith into.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think you might be giving insufficient 'shrift' to the informed part of informed consent

Rather than try increasingly coercive means to induce me to get vaccinated, why not give me hard data with transparent provenance about the level of risks of all options and allow robust debate

If I have a 2% chance of abnormal clotting leading to stroke or other damage from the vaccine and a 2% chance of similar complication if I contract an active case of WuVid is a much different calculus if those numbers are 0.2% and 2% - or worse yet 2% and 0.2%

Perhaps they should not have so thoroughly burnt down any credibility they had if they planned to rely on that later

Do you know how to research it for yourself? Serious question. I know where to look and can understand summaries but don't have a clue as to how to evaluate the underlying science. So, peer reviewed studies is about the best I can hope for. I'm satisfied with that and what acquaintances "in the industry" have said. It's not as sexy or as interesting as media and social media, but it's probably the best shot and being actually informed.

I'm not going to try and convince you to take it or not take it, because frankly why should anyone take my opinion on it. I'm just saying a lot of the arguments put forth against it are specious or based on provable lies. That said, I think a lot of the "pro-mask" arguments are exactly the same. I remain pretty unconvinced mask mandates accomplish much and haven't found a peer reviewed study in realistic circumstances that say they are. So, yeah, I'm not saying "just listen to the talking heads".

 

[Tombs]

Do you know how to research it for yourself? Serious question. I know where to look and can understand summaries but don't have a clue as to how to evaluate the underlying science. So, peer reviewed studies is about the best I can hope for. I'm satisfied with that and what acquaintances "in the industry" have said. It's not as sexy or as interesting as media and social media, but it's probably the best shot and being actually informed.

I'm not going to try and convince you to take it or not take it, because frankly why should anyone take my opinion on it. I'm just saying a lot of the arguments put forth against it are specious or based on provable lies. That said, I think a lot of the "pro-mask" arguments are exactly the same. I remain pretty unconvinced mask mandates accomplish much and haven't found a peer reviewed study in realistic circumstances that say they are. So, yeah, I'm not saying "just listen to the talking heads".

I don't care what some peer review says on the internet.

When people I trust on this forum report side effects they have had or a family member has had, I'd put infinitely more weight on their word.

 

[Keith_Indy]

No mRNA vaccine is on the market, and have only been in development (according to the linked article) since 2017. That’s new from my perspective.

Want to Know More About mRNA Before Your COVID Jab?

A primer on the history, scope, and safety of mRNA vaccines and therapeutics

www.medpagetoday.com

Never Been Done Before?

That's not completely true. While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

What Do We Know About Safety?

While the flu and rabies vaccines appeared to be "safe and reasonably well tolerated," Weissman and colleagues wrote, trials did show "moderate and in rare cases severe injection site or systemic reactions."

Their chief safety concerns, which they said should be closely watched in future trials, were about local and systemic inflammation, as well as keeping tabs on the "expressed immunogen" and on any auto-reactive antibodies.

A possible concern could be that some mRNA-based vaccine platforms induce potent type I interferon responses, which have been associated not only with inflammation but also potentially with autoimmunity," they wrote. "Thus, identification of individuals at an increased risk of autoimmune reactions before mRNA vaccination may allow reasonable precautions to be taken."

 

[BugI02]

Do you know how to research it for yourself? Serious question. I know where to look and can understand summaries but don't have a clue as to how to evaluate the underlying science. So, peer reviewed studies is about the best I can hope for. I'm satisfied with that and what acquaintances "in the industry" have said. It's not as sexy or as interesting as media and social media, but it's probably the best shot and being actually informed.

I'm not going to try and convince you to take it or not take it, because frankly why should anyone take my opinion on it. I'm just saying a lot of the arguments put forth against it are specious or based on provable lies. That said, I think a lot of the "pro-mask" arguments are exactly the same. I remain pretty unconvinced mask mandates accomplish much and haven't found a peer reviewed study in realistic circumstances that say they are. So, yeah, I'm not saying "just listen to the talking heads".

I am not capable of designing and running the experiments, but I'm quite capable of evaluating the data - as is most anybody if the data is put into a rational format

It is when the CDC just stops counting breakthrough infections, or I can see that the data is often presented in percent increase or decrease if that assists the hype, or raw, often cumulative numbers if it does not, that I am reminded of the jamilism that "If it looks like you're hiding something, I'ma going to believe you're hiding something" [general 'you', not specific]. When public sources talk about case numbers but never mention deaths anymore, a quick trip to worldometers shows that death numbers are still low even though the spike in cases began 5 to 6 weeks ago in most places in the US (which should obviate the 'deaths are delayed X weeks after illness' - X used to be 4 but when that doesn't work I'm sure some excuse will be found to increase the number as necessary)

The point I'm trying to make is un-massaged, factual, easily verifiable data presented at a layman's level of complexity in order to enable as many people as possible to make an informed decision - and then accepting that decision even if it doesn't go the way they want it to - should be what the government has been doing all along if they want the most people possible to get vaccinated. They will never get 100% and should not expect to

 

[Jeepster48439]

Also, son is army national guard with flight status. They leave him alone because his mos is in demand, and he is E6 and has earned his position


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My daughter is Navy Reserve on Active Duty at the Bureau of Naval Medicine. They refused to allow her leave to go on a family vacation to Orlando unless she got vaccinated.

 

[ziggy]

The jab is useless. If not worse... Believe Dr. Peter McCollough. https://www.globalresearch.ca/renow...9-shots-bioweapons-thrust-upon-public/5746705

 

[DadSmith]

You are being redirected...

rairfoundation.com

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And tested and proven. And like a real vaccine, if you get it, you don’t get measles.

Unlike some “vaccines” that allow you to still get the illness for which it’s supposed to prevent but somehow also reduces possible hospital stays. Well, except for the blood clots, Bell’s Palsy, myocarditis and infertility...

About .3% of those that get the measles vaccine can get measles, there is no vaccine that is a 100% effective.

And the chicken pox vaccine is only about 85-90% effective, but it is believed to be 100% effective at preventing moderate to severe cases.

Top 20 Questions about Vaccination

Detailed answers to the most frequently asked questions about vaccination.

www.historyofvaccines.org

.

No mRNA vaccine is on the market, and have only been in development (according to the linked article) since 2017. That’s new from my perspective.

Want to Know More About mRNA Before Your COVID Jab?

A primer on the history, scope, and safety of mRNA vaccines and therapeutics

www.medpagetoday.com

Never Been Done Before?

That is not accurate, human mRNA vaccines have been in development for longer than that, from a study linked in that article they started human testing on a mRNA rabies vaccine in 2013. They published results from it in 2017. So it was in development well before then, since it had to be developed and go through animal trials first.

Safety and immunogenicity of a mRNA rabies vaccine in healthy adults: an open-label, non-randomised, prospective, first-in-human phase 1 clinical trial - PubMed

CureVac AG.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They have also been in use in some animal vaccines for 10+ years.

DNA vaccines in veterinary use

DNA vaccines represent a new frontier in vaccine technology. One important application of this technology is in the veterinary arena. DNA vaccines have already gained a foothold in certain fields of veterinary medicine. However, several important questions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Keith_Indy]

So, I missed the mark by 4 years, and you think that makes it "less new," I've got underwear older than that.

1st generation, 10th century China inoculation against small pox
2nd generation, 1880s by Louis Pasteur who developed vaccines for chicken cholera and anthrax
3rd generation, 2016 DNA vaccine for Zika, 2020 mRNA for COVID19

Vaccine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And from the article you cite... So, it worked when "administered with a needle-free device" but not when injected.

Interpretation: This first-ever demonstration in human beings shows that a prophylactic mRNA-based candidate vaccine can induce boostable functional antibodies against a viral antigen when administered with a needle-free device, although not when injected by a needle-syringe. The vaccine was generally safe with a reasonable tolerability profile.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Religious exemption letter for Catholics...

Vaccine Exemption Template Letter — The National Catholic Bioethics Center

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that a person may be required to refuse a medical intervention, including a vaccination, if his or her informed conscience comes to this sure judgment. While the Catholic Church does not prohibit the use of any vaccine, and generally encourages the use of safe and e

www.ncbcenter.org

 

[Joniki]

As I was reading through this thread, I had to chuckle. There is so much misinformation floating around on the internet that no one really knows what is true and what is BS! If you want the truth, the whole truth, sit down with an ICU nurse or respiratory therapist.

 

[BugI02]

As I was reading through this thread, I had to chuckle. There is so much misinformation floating around on the internet that no one really knows what is true and what is BS! If you want the truth, the whole truth, sit down with an ICU nurse or respiratory therapist.

There are diametrically opposed viewpoints among them, and indeed all medical professionals, as well

If I have to live with any consequences, ultimately the decision must be mine

 

[drillsgt]

As I was reading through this thread, I had to chuckle. There is so much misinformation floating around on the internet that no one really knows what is true and what is BS! If you want the truth, the whole truth, sit down with an ICU nurse or respiratory therapist.

I probably wouldn't rely on the 'truth' coming from an ICU nurse or respiratory therapist, their experiences would be centered around the worst cases of covid, it'd be like letting ER doctors and trauma surgeons decide gun policy.

 

[IndyTom]

My son is now p*ssed. Got an email saying that everyone has to wear a mask in class (college) even after forcing them to get the jab.

So, clearly, one of these things, if not both, doesn’t work.

 

[BugI02]

My son is now p*ssed. Got an email saying that everyone has to wear a mask in class (college) even after forcing them to get the jab.

So, clearly, one of these things, if not both, doesn’t work.

So many people are getting a lesson in arbitrary authority, let's hope it sinks in

 

[DadSmith]

According to people much smarter than I am. The Covid-19 vaccines actually make you more susceptible to Covid-19 and the variants. ADE

 

[gregr]

Reports: FDA could give Pfizer COVID vaccine full approval Monday

The vaccine would be the first to receive full approval from the U.S. government.

www.wthr.com

But, how could the FDA give approval to the vaccine, when by their own guidelines, they`ve not satisfied their protocols...

Drug Development & Approval Process

Get to know FDA’s drug development and approval process -- ensuring that drugs work and that the benefits outweigh their known risks.

www.fda.gov

 

[rhamersley]

Reports: FDA could give Pfizer COVID vaccine full approval Monday

The vaccine would be the first to receive full approval from the U.S. government.

www.wthr.com

But, how could the FDA give approval to the vaccine, when by their own guidelines, they`ve not satisfied their protocols...

Drug Development & Approval Process

Get to know FDA’s drug development and approval process -- ensuring that drugs work and that the benefits outweigh their known risks.

www.fda.gov