If you are attacked, where are you supposed to shoot the perp?

[TheSpark]

If you ever fire your gun at someone then you should intend to kill them. If not, then don't fire.

That being said shooting them in the chest area is your best bet for a kill. Multiple vital organs over a large area.

 

[actaeon277]

If you defend yourself by firing a shot, or shots, and the person goes down and surrenders, you have to stop.

How will it look in court if you continued to shoot at someone laying on their belly on the ground?

Thus, you shot to stop the threat.
When the person laid on their belly and surrendered, the threat was over.

Shooting to kill, means you keep shooting.
I don't think that's wise to do, or to say in court.

 

[actaeon277]

Oh, and OP, save money, take training.
Guy Relford has a good class coming up on Indiana Gun law. I'm traveling from north Indiana to take it.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...440-indiana-gun-law-feb-22-ingo-discount.html

Discount for INGO members.

 

[SEIndSAM]

I will be the wet blanket here and remind everyone that anything you post here, could be used against you in court at a later time. Think about how your statement could be played to a jury of soccer mom's.

 

[actaeon277]

I will be the wet blanket here and remind everyone that anything you post here, could be used against you in court at a later time. Think about how your statement could be played to a jury of soccer mom's.

Yes.

 

[Alamo]

Let me offer a slight different perspective: Assuming all the prerequesites are met (meaning your use of deadly force is required to save your life or prevent serious bodily injury as well as being legally and morally sound), then

Shoot whatever portion of your opponent if available, and keep going until he is not a threat.

Center of Mass, or head, is fine -- if they are available, if your threat is out in the open, far enough away, and so forth

If he is laying on top of you, that might not be an option. Then shoot him someplace else and work your way to better targets until he is no longer a threat. Hand, arm, neck head. Ankle, thigh, pelvis, butt, abdomen...etc.

If for some reason most of is body is obscured, say behind a car, then shoot whatever is sticking out. Foot, knee, elbow, head... etc. They may be small, moving, hard to hit targets, but they may be all you have. Keeping in mind, of course background (you probably don't want to bag somebody walking across the street in the background).

Some good training -- both tactical and legal -- will help make all this clearer.

You asked a good question for someone just starting out and acknowledging you don't know but want to start finding out. Serious questions should get serious answers, not derision or "OMG I can't believe she said that!"

Keep asking questions!

Etc.

 

[GIJEW]

You have every right to defend yourself. I would never dispute that. However, you should think of it as shooting to stop the threat. There is a difference. If the bad guy dies because they initiated the attack, then so be it.

I think you are talking past each other. Nobody's saying "who care's if they're running away, smoke 'em all!", we all know what the rules engagement are. I think 'mom45' is expressing a WILLINGNESS to kill the perps. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's a prerequisite to using a weapon in SD. Legally, there's no such thing as trying to "shoot them a little" (hit a major artery, and see how long it takes for some one to die). Trying to scare them, just "wing 'em", etc would probably have a prosecutor claiming that you were'nt really in danger because you would've been "be shooting to kill" instead of F'ing around. No IANAL. While not exactly the same, "shooting to stop" while politically correct, leans that way. I get that's not your position; you DID say "if the BG dies...so be it".
A combat mindset requires a bit of unlearning social conditioning: "No, little Johnny, no biting or hitting--and forget about KILLING!!!" So, if 'mom45' says out loud: "if attacked with lethal force, I will kill in SD", that's probably more important than worrying that some ambulance-chasing atty will try to twist her words around--at least here amongst us. Saying that to responding LEO, let alone reporters is another thing.

 

[GIJEW]

Let me offer a slight different perspective: Assuming all the prerequesites are met (meaning your use of deadly force is required to save your life or prevent serious bodily injury as well as being legally and morally sound), then

Shoot whatever portion of your opponent if available, and keep going until he is not a threat.

Center of Mass, or head, is fine -- if they are available, if your threat is out in the open, far enough away, and so forth

If he is laying on top of you, that might not be an option. Then shoot him someplace else and work your way to better targets until he is no longer a threat. Hand, arm, neck head. Ankle, thigh, pelvis, butt, abdomen...etc.

If for some reason most of is body is obscured, say behind a car, then shoot whatever is sticking out. Foot, knee, elbow, head... etc. They may be small, moving, hard to hit targets, but they may be all you have. Keeping in mind, of course background (you probably don't want to bag somebody walking across the street in the background).

Some good training -- both tactical and legal -- will help make all this clearer.

You asked a good question for someone just starting out and acknowledging you don't know but want to start finding out. Serious questions should get serious answers, not derision or "OMG I can't believe she said that!"

Keep asking questions!

Etc.

Well said!

 

[mom45]

I think you are talking past each other. Nobody's saying "who care's if they're running away, smoke 'em all!", we all know what the rules engagement are. I think 'mom45' is expressing a WILLINGNESS to kill the perps. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's a prerequisite to using a weapon in SD. Legally, there's no such thing as trying to "shoot them a little" (hit a major artery, and see how long it takes for some one to die). Trying to scare them, just "wing 'em", etc would probably have a prosecutor claiming that you were'nt really in danger because you would've been "be shooting to kill" instead of F'ing around. No IANAL. While not exactly the same, "shooting to stop" while politically correct, leans that way. I get that's not your position; you DID say "if the BG dies...so be it".
A combat mindset requires a bit of unlearning social conditioning: "No, little Johnny, no biting or hitting--and forget about KILLING!!!" So, if 'mom45' says out loud: "if attacked with lethal force, I will kill in SD", that's probably more important than worrying that some ambulance-chasing atty will try to twist her words around--at least here amongst us. Saying that to responding LEO, let alone reporters is another thing.

I think you expressed my thoughts fairly well. I would simply expand on that by saying that apparently shooting to kill can mean different things to different folks. If shooting to kill is accomplished with one or two well-placed shots as a result of knowing how to handle your firearm, then a self-defense shot could kill an intruder. If by shooting to kill, you mean emptying a mag and maybe a couple of more because the guy was on the ground but not quite dead...that is very different. You should be shooting to disable the person, not shoot them execution style after they are down. I guess I'm used to shooting well placed shots...so far only on targets and stupid critters in my livestock pens and never on a human. I hope I never have to experience that, but if I do, then I am prepared.

 

[nakinate]

I will be the wet blanket here and remind everyone that anything you post here, could be used against you in court at a later time. Think about how your statement could be played to a jury of soccer mom's.

the internet is forever.

 

[k1500]

If you have the ability to aim, center of mass of the upper body. If the perp is at arms length, you might only have just enough time to draw from your waist (common carry location), point the muzzle, and make a lower abdomen shot. You might even be using your non draw arm to put up some resistance while trying to draw.

 

[indiucky]

Center mass until the attack stops..... A leg shot should only be by accident IMHO....

 

[sniper102]

In a place where there are no cameras. Lol 2 to the chest and one to the head

 

[Bennettjh]

Center mass until the threat is stopped.

 

[Tired of Lies]

My intent is shoot to kill since I am pretty sure that is what they intend to do to me. Dead men also can't tell stories or sue you.

My dad used to work with the Chicago PD and has told me many stories of guys hopped up on dope that had been shot multiple times and were still the aggressor. Shooting to kill is sometimes the most effective way to stop the attack.

One of my best friends was NYPD. He loved being a cop, his dad, grandfather, and brother were all NYPD. He started counting the days to retirement the day a guy high on crack climbed naked on another pairs patrol car and it took a dozen cops sitting on him and all of their handcuffs on wrists and ankles to contain him. The guy actually broke the first set.

He decided it was time to retire when the guys lawyer put in a complaint saying they used excessive force and it was actually entertained. After that he promised if he ever had to shoot in defense it was going to be to the forehead...and this was way before the current zombie infatuation.

 

[rhino]

• No one when can give you a definitive answer on when it's time to shoot or not. There are too many variables. I wish I could answer that question, but then I would be a psychic and I'd have already won many lotteries.
• If you have to shoot, the primary target is centerline of the body, upper chest area. [Please note: this is not "center of mass." Center of mass of a human body is below the navel on most people].
• If that's not available, choose the geometric center of the biggest piece that you can see/access.
• In some circumstances, the head (preferably brainstem) is a logical choice, but it's tough to hit for a variety of reasons.
• Don't forget that people are three dimensional. If a threat is not facing you squarely, you may need to adjust your point of aim to hit the same potentially vital targets.
• Keep shooting until the threat is no longer a threat.
• Don't stand in one place too long. Keep moving as much as you can and still get good hits.

 

[PeaShooter]

I suggest Detroit, or Chicago....

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

Mozambique drill

 

[chezuki]

If he's still breathing , one between the eyes!

Might want to rethink that head shot. Sounds a little "executiony".

 

[ajeandy]

I AIM FOR THE PEENER!







Center mass is always a great alternative get some big range targets. I bought 50 23x35" on Amazon 14.99. They're great for double/triple tap practice!