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If you were detained for OC on Evans Av in Valpo
- Thread starter The Keymaster
- Start date
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I'm not surprised by getting the cops called on, but I am over them checking the gun after the two people are cleared. Still looking for something are we?!
All jbt are leos.
All animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.
Nothing 2 c here move along.
CathyInBlue
Grandmaster
The question isn't "What did you do wrong?". The question is, "What can the authorities PROVE you did?". If there isn't enough RAS to stop someone for an investigatory detention, then they're not gonna find out that they don't have an LTCH. Case law is replete with such cases.
Keymaster,
If someone called in to dispatch and reported a "man with a watch", "man with a wallet", or even a "man with a pocketknife" (closed and just clipped on his pocket), would the dispatcher have sent a car?
I recognize that the reality isn't that a MWAG is seen as the same thing as "MWAPK", and further, Indy317's point that CWOL is a crime in IN, but the point I'm getting at is that someone calling in, reporting a non-event would likely get the response that CIB mentioned. Admittedly, never having been a police dispatcher, I can't say that with any certainty, but it's my guess. I'm open to correction if I'm in error.
All jbt are leos.
All animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.
Nothing 2 c here move along.
Jedi, all JBT are LEOs, but not all LEOs are JBTs. This point, I think, needs to be remembered... by both LEO and non-LEO alike.
Cathy,
As above, Indy317 obliquely referred to the fact that carrying a handgun is a crime in Indiana. It is an affirmative defense (as I'm sure you know) to hold a LTCH or be a LEO or judge or whatever, but the fact remains that it is a criminal act absent one of those exceptions. Seeing you carrying would be prima facie evidence of a crime being committed, just as seeing you in a store, at night, with a tire iron and a flashlight would likely get you on the wrong end of an officer's attention until you could prove you had a right to be where you were and were not "up to no good".
Now... All that said, I think the law is far behind the times. The idea that the mere possession of a legal item is evidence enough to end me up in the back of a car in cuffs is ludicrous and the law needs to be changed to recognize Constitutional Carry. Until it is, however, we have to live under the it as it's presently written.
Just my thoughts. Again, if I'm in error, I'd like to read the reasoning as to why and how.
Blessings,
Bill
CathyInBlue
Grandmaster
Malone v State 49A02-0701-CR-18, says that your sidearm cannot be seized without either A) a warrant, B) RABCOS, or C) RAS, but Malone was on his own front porch, not out and about.
pretty much anything north of 30 in porter county doesnt like OC or the 2A, i lived and went to school in Chesterton...it wasn't that great
Hammerhead
Master
Remind me to stop shopping for my tire irons and flashlights after dark.
Well, I DID mean a store that wasn't open, but I didn't say that.
semperfi211
Master
They do, for license registration and proof of insurance. They call them sobriety check points.
Is there a sticky somewhere with all the shorthand explained? Some of us have chosen to limit our use of shorthand and do not commit them to memory.
Is there a sticky somewhere with all the shorthand explained? Some of us have chosen to limit our use of shorthand and do not commit them to memory.
You make one and keep it in your phone. There's an app called Color Notes for DROID where I store these nuggets:
State v Richardson:
Once a valid LTCH is presented all questioning about the weapon should cease.
State v Washington:
He possessed a valid permit, the Fourth Amendment was violated when the officer lacked an articulable basis of concern for officer safety.
IC 35-47-14-3 Warrantless seizure of firearm from individual believed to be dangerous
OC legalities:
Indiana law is silent on this issue; however, carrying an exposed weapon in public may alarm some people. Also, the right to carry a firearm may be restricted on private property and businesses by the owners. A law enforcement officer does have the right to inspect the permit.
In Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648 (1979), the United States Supreme Court ruled that the police stopping vehicles for no reason other than to check the drivers' licenses and registrations was unconstitutional.
Malone v State 49A02-0701-CR-18, says that your sidearm cannot be seized without either A) a warrant, B) RABCOS, or C) RAS, but Malone was on his own front porch, not out and about.
These last 2werenight added last night after I read the thread. Rabcos looks like it's gonna be "reasonably articulated basis concerning officer safety if you're wondering. I goggled the court decisions and paraphrased but I think most officers would note that someone who has gone to the trouble to keep ICs and case law isn't someoneto be trifled with and in appearance is a responsible gun owner.
What Im saying is with that color notes program you can store that information on your phone for IMMEDIATE access without climbing through page after page of INGO INGO or try to google ICs from memory or even rely on your own phone carriers connection (who hasn't tried to look up something in a hurry when your getting the 1X symbol ?)... you already have a butt load of attorney info at your finger tips. Makes you feel like a law ninja.
CathyInBlue
Grandmaster
Six criteria, any one of which would permit seizure of a person's sidearm:
1) Warrant (Signed by a judge and listing the particular places to be searched and things or people to be seized.)
2) Consent (If you let them, they can do it to you.)
3) LAK = Lack of Affirmative Knowledge (to believe weapon possession is not a crime)
4) RABCOS = Reasonable, Articulable Basis for Concern for Officer Safety (to seize weapon)
5) RAS = Reasonable, Articulable Suspicion (to detain)
6) PC = Probable Cause (to arrest)
LAK is remediated with familiarity. If the officer knows you are exempt, then for him to harass you about it is a crime. This would also be greatly remediated with Constitutional carry.
PC encompasses RAS. If you have RAS, you may also have PC. If you do not have RAS, then you do not have PC. If you have PC, you also have RAS.
1) Warrant (Signed by a judge and listing the particular places to be searched and things or people to be seized.)
2) Consent (If you let them, they can do it to you.)
3) LAK = Lack of Affirmative Knowledge (to believe weapon possession is not a crime)
4) RABCOS = Reasonable, Articulable Basis for Concern for Officer Safety (to seize weapon)
5) RAS = Reasonable, Articulable Suspicion (to detain)
6) PC = Probable Cause (to arrest)
LAK is remediated with familiarity. If the officer knows you are exempt, then for him to harass you about it is a crime. This would also be greatly remediated with Constitutional carry.
PC encompasses RAS. If you have RAS, you may also have PC. If you do not have RAS, then you do not have PC. If you have PC, you also have RAS.
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Me too...
I use to think like that but now I lean to this ome:Jedi, all JBT are LEOs, but not all LEOs are JBTs. This point, I think, needs to be remembered... by both LEO and non-LEO alike.
All JBT are LEOs, the vast majority of LEOs are JBTs.
This country is not what it use to be and continues to spiral down the toliet.
Stay safe all.
X3
How I believe that situation should be handled...
"There is a MWG in the McDonalds!!!"
:What is he doing?!:
"He's eating a Big Mac!!!!"
:ok:
:thanks for calling, have a nice day:
(click)
