Illinois getting some where?

[Kirk Freeman]

What does the Appeals Court do, what is the enforcement mechanism?

The 7th Circuit struck down Illinois carry ban. If Illinois refuses to pass right to carry legislation, Illinois becomes Wyoming.

 

[dwain]

Our Attorney General, Lisa Madigan has appealed the decision by the Court. She has requested now, that the entire ten judges in the Appeals Court review this and approve it, or over throw it. If we loose here, it will go to the U.S. Supreme Court. Her request does not stop the 180 day time limit,unless it goes to the Supreme Court.This B.S. does not surprise me one bit.

 

[David]

Umm yeah they don't really have any other option but passing it now or they will soon become a constitutional carry state and you know they won't let that happen. Did you read it? It will be a shall issue license and it says a non-residence license. I would imagine if they are gonna have a non-res license then they'll likely have reciprocity also but we'll see.

So they write up a bill that's as restrictive as CA, or NY, and then tell the court that if they don't like it they have to make everyone else relax there restrictions to the same degree.

Having the Feds involved in this at all is a very bad thing. We are one Supreme Court justice away from a national gun ban.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So they write up a bill that's as restrictive as CA, or NY, and then tell the court that if they don't like it they have to make everyone else relax there restrictions to the same degree.

And the court strikes that down and Illinois is Wyoming.

Having the Feds involved in this at all is a very bad thing.

Having the Feds uphold the Bill of Rights against the States is the essence of the Fourteenth Amendment.

You expect a remedy in state court? In Illinois?

 

[BigMoose]

I vote that Indiana annexes all of ILL except Chicago, then we give the Gary area to Chicago. Problem solved.

 

[David]

Having the Feds uphold the Bill of Rights against the States is the essence of the Fourteenth Amendment.

You expect a remedy in state court? In Illinois?

Yes, that is where it was intended to happen. It was described as the "laboratories of Democracy", if you don't like your states laws you vote with your feet. The problem with relying on the Feds is that if you don't like a federal law, where are you going to go?

The Civil War was the single worst thing that has ever happened to our Constitution, it was the death of state sovereignty. The states did not create the federal government with the idea of it being superior to them, the Civil War reversed that relationship, the states today are little more than subsidiaries of the federal.

The Bill Of Rights were not intended to apply to the states, if they had been, none of the colonies would have ratified the Constitution. This is a Quote from James Madison from Federalist 45 making that point.




"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite"

On the surface it is easy to support rulings like McDonald vs City of Chicago, but the prescident of allowing the Feds to dictate state law is very dangerous and I guarantee you that the bad applications of this will far outnumber the good ones. We have accepted that the Supreme Court can interfere with state gun laws. What the SCOTUS giveth, the SCOTUS can taketh away. What do you expect the court to look like four years from now.....we are one Justice away from a court that will uphold a federal gun ban.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ok, the Lost Cause argument.

The problem with relying on the Feds is that if you don't like a federal law, where are you going to go?

The Supreme Court or work to repeal the law.

The states did not create the federal government with the idea of it being superior to them,

How do you explain the existence of the Supremacy Clause then?

The Bill Of Rights were not intended to apply to the states,

Some thought this, some did not.

Commentators of the law at the time were doing so (at least as to the RKBA). Antebellum Southern States applying the Bill of Rights to their state.

Why do you think Taney referenced the right to arms in Dred Scot's parade of horribles? Because the court viewed the Second Amendment as applying to all the states.

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite"

Right, Madison, the author of the Ninth Amendment, understood it well. And so?

The Framers of the Fourteenth Amendment understood that States can act as tyrants too. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, inter alia were acting as tyrants against the Freedmen and denying them their civil rights. Thus, the Framers extended the Bill of Rights to the states to prevent the States from tyrannizing their citizens.

States cannot be allowed to violate the Constitution or it is meaningless.

We have accepted that the Supreme Court can interfere with state gun laws.

We did not "accept" it, it is by design of the Constitution. The Court has that authority via Article III of the Constitution.

What the SCOTUS giveth, the SCOTUS can taketh away.

What's your point?

What the state courts give, the state courts can taketh away.

 

[David]

How do you explain the existence of the Supremacy Clause then?

.

Why do you so casually accept the idea of universal Federal supremacy?

“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land"

In Pursuance thereof, in other words, Federal law is supreme in the execution of the powers granted to them in the Constitution, article one section eight, the enumerated powers, which are extremely limited. Beyond that, the federal Government was intended to have no authority, supreme or otherwise.

I am not nearly as comfortable as you are with the Constitution being whatever the current Supreme Court wants it to be. The Constitution created the court, not the other way around.

 

[Mark 1911]

Ummm, you guys know that the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the Illinois General Assembly to pass this.

What I find incredible, is that despite the Appeals court ruling, I just heard on the radio on Saturday Chicago politicians (in wake of Netown shootings) talking about background checks for private sales, assault weapons bans, high-capcity magazine bans, gun registration, ammo purchase limits etc. Not that the ruling necessarily precludes any of these other measures from consideration. But just that its the same old mentality, and despite the new Appeals Court ruling, I have yet to hear the first mention of Chicago taking the first step to comply with it!

 

[David]

What I find incredible, is that despite the Appeals court ruling, I just heard on the radio on Saturday Chicago politicians (in wake of Netown shootings) talking about background checks for private sales, assault weapons bans, high-capcity magazine bans, gun registration, ammo purchase limits etc. Not that the ruling necessarily precludes any of these other measures from consideration. But just that its the same old mentality, and despite the new Appeals Court ruling, I have yet to hear the first mention of Chicago taking the first step to comply with it!

The people of Chicago have nothing to worry about, under the watchfull eye of BO, Eric Holder will spare no effort to insure full compliance with the Federal Court order.

 

[Valvestate]

Umm yeah they don't really have any other option but passing it now or they will soon become a constitutional carry state and you know they won't let that happen. Did you read it? It will be a shall issue license and it says a non-residence license. I would imagine if they are gonna have a non-res license then they'll likely have reciprocity also but we'll see.

Nope, hate reading bills on my phone. I'm pretty surprised. I bet Chicago based politicians had little to do with that part. I guess I was more or less just ranting as I work in Chicago

 

[David]

The people of Chicago have nothing to worry about, under the watchfull eye of BO, Eric Holder will spare no effort to insure full compliance with the Federal Court order.

Hate to say I told you so, but...

Of Arms and the Law: Illinois to the Federal courts: bugger off