IMPD Officer shot

[forgop]

The carrot doesn't work without the stick and vice versa.

The simple fact is there is no simple answer. If there was, we'd have fixed it by now. It requires a multi-discipline approach and it requires community support. Saving a neighborhood is like saving an addict. You can't force it to change until its receptive to help.

Problem is it's just easier to blame "whitey" and the police for their issues for this kid's father dying than just take accounatilbity for their actions. The coroner ruled it wa sa heart attack but the family still claims IPD killed him, thus the son fired on this officer to save himself.

 

[forgop]

It's funny how quickly we have turned back to in-fighting.

Not seeing any fighting...alternative points of view perhaps, but no fighting so to speak.

 

[jsharmon7]

A growing number of parents simply do not teach their children respect, responsibility, or pride any more. They are taught to blame others for their problems and to expect to have things handed to them. I've been talking to little kids in an apartment complex and had other young children come running up to tell them not to talk to the police and don't be snitches. I've investigated people dealing drugs in neighborhood parks only to have their very small children come up and start saying "go away police!" I've had younger teenagers cuss me out and tell me how they're going to "get me," who also had a laundry list of prior arrests. There are plenty of good kids out there still being raised the right way, but it appears that we also have no shortage of Major Davis Jr.'s in the making, just waiting to take his place.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I looked around on mycase and only found the cannabis misdemeanor and a bunch of moving violations and other traffic stuff. Checked the DOC Offender Database and found his dads bit for dealing cocaine in the mid 1990's. Is there a chance that maybe this gun was actually legally possessed?




My heart is with the IMPD. I have seen some facebook status updates from IMPD officers, and the level of righteous rage toward this loss is extremely high.



I also feel that since the anti-gun factions will be trying to twist this loss politically, we as responsible gun owners may be well served to get out in front of this.
An idea I have been kicking around is for gun owners, other citizens, and businesses to unite with local government and establish a new fund (or utilize the existing CrimeStoppers model) that will pay a substantial reward (at least several hundred dollars) for anonymous information leading to the seizure of firearms from minors (who are in possession outside of legal boundary) and felons. The tipster would be paid if a gun was seized regardless of prosecution, but prosecution would be pursued whenever possible. The tipster hotline should be heavily promoted via billboards, sides of buses, television, radio, and social media. The message should push the idea that "saving lives isn't snitching."

Again, my thoughts are with IMPD in these rough hours. It is time to take the fight to the scum of this city.

While I can appreciate your sentiment, focusing on the gun, legally or illegally possessed is a red herring in this situation and in general. Don't worry about the gun or its immigration status. The son of a ***** did something that warrants execution, so execute him and be done with it. Don't worry about trifles on the way to date with the executioner. And no, we don't need to foster a spy-on-your-neighbors society. The two problems with this outlook are that you are setting yourself up to be on the receiving end when the exercise of your rights becomes illegal. We may have won a few battles, but were are still a long way away from where we were in 1933 and even further away from where we properly belong. Never forget that when you hand someone a stick to hit someone else, he can just as easily use it to hit you. Punish crime. Stupid programs are not necessary. Rope burns around selected necks are.

Now to put my other hat on for a minute and consider the problem issue with crime in general--we rarely discuss a comprehensive view of the three-way relationship between police, criminals, and the rest of us, and when discussing parts of the matter, it gets very polarized. My view is that, as most of us agree, the politicians micromanaging things they clearly don't understand or have political incentives to not understand (Dave thinks back to the Upton Sinclair comment that it is hard to get a man to understand when his salary [or other forms of worldly gain] depend upon his not understanding) is the first problem which needs addressed. This applies to squandering public resources on stupid things like cricket fields, walking trails, and light rail, the latter two generally serve more as robbery zones and thug movers than serve the purposes listed in the brochure, and the failure to apply resources where needed. I have found that in life balance goes a long way. This applies both to measurable circumstances and perception.

In my reckoning, the 'broken windows' theory of crime is a bunch of BS. It turns on the idea of harassing the sh*t out of people for petty violations with the idea that by establishing the reality-based perception of a Nazi-like environment the more serious criminals will go away. There are two major problems with this. First and most obvious is that the application of 'justice' is upside-down and inherently unjust. The other is that it does not remove or eliminate the criminals but rather simply encourages them to go be a problem to someone else and become his/her political problem to deal with, much like sending the fire to your neighbor's house rather than simply putting it out.

Having confidence in the police will go a long way toward forgiving those less than shining moments that are going to happen once in a while. I had a situation several years back in which I sent a written complaint to a certain department regarding the behavior of its officers. (For those who may be wondering, even though the surly response from the officer at the second stop irritated me, I refrained from naming names in preference to treating this as an opportunity for finding improved methods.) I had two instances of being stopped over a headlight about a year apart. In the intervening time, two people engaged in illegal maneuvers on an icy street right in front of one of their officers who didn't lift a finger. Needless to say, I completely failed to see the humor in this while I would not have been upset over being stopped by the next department up the road. The critical difference is that I didn't have any question in my mind that I could count on those officers up the road if I were to find myself in need of their help.

The flip side of this is that most of the alternative efforts I see being made in the high crime areas are predestined to failure by virtue of the fact that a rule of law society and the thug culture cannot peacefully coexist. The closest to making peace between the police and the thugs is to let the thuggery run unabated while writing traffic tickets and applying negative attention to productive citizens for being ugly in public while the most dangerous continue as they were. We need to find the collective fortitude to tell the Jacksons and Sharptons to get bent and take care of the actual problem--and kissing antisocial asses is NOT a solution.

All said and done, if I were to shoot and kill an armed intruder tonight, I would be facing a much different situation than a certain thug taking up space in a hospital tonight. I would be confronted with police scrutinizing my moves with jaundiced eyes in spite of the fact that the intruder brought the threat to my home. I would not have the local media interviewing everyone who knows me broadcasting stories about what a great person I am. I would not have any community organization standing watch with the presumption that I had been victimized (armed intrusion into my home notwithstanding). Now, if we were to return to a time in which making a call for an officer and a wagon was not a life-changing event with the majority of the change to start after the arrival of the officer and the wagon, we would see more people wiling to see to their own defense, more thugs in boxes, and less crime. Criminals may be bent but generally are not completely stupid, and are likely to be sufficiently risk-averse to modify their ways under such circumstances. When Kinnesaw, Georgia addressed its crime problem with an ordinance requiring a gun and ammunition to be kept in all homes, their crime dropped precipitously. Given that the ordinance contained exceptions for prohibited persons and conscientious objectors it was not blanket coverage, but what it did accomplish was to announce a de facto open season on criminals. The criminals apparently took the hint.

Now, this brings us back to the question: Do we correct crime by dealing with criminals or by dicking around with people over guns?

 

[bwframe]

A growing number of parents simply do not teach their children respect, responsibility, or pride any more. They are taught to blame others for their problems and to expect to have things handed to them. I've been talking to little kids in an apartment complex and had other young children come running up to tell them not to talk to the police and don't be snitches. I've investigated people dealing drugs in neighborhood parks only to have their very small children come up and start saying "go away police!" I've had younger teenagers cuss me out and tell me how they're going to "get me," who also had a laundry list of prior arrests. There are plenty of good kids out there still being raised the right way, but it appears that we also have no shortage of Major Davis Jr.'s in the making, just waiting to take his place.

Major Davis Jr. himself (at the ripe age of 25?) is leaving 4 children without a father.

 

[Birds Away]

Major Davis Jr. himself (at the ripe age of 25?) is leaving 4 children without a father.

I thought he was still alive? Did I miss an update?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Major Davis Jr. himself (at the ripe age of 25?) is leaving 4 children without a father.

Yes, who will almost certainly believe that he was 'taken away by those no-good police' rather than that he is in prison where he belongs for a senseless murder he committed of his own free will.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I thought he was still alive? Did I miss an update?

Still alive, but I doubt he will be roaming the streets before those kids are grown. Then again, maybe they will all have a big reunion in prison in a few years.

 

[Birds Away]

Still alive, but I doubt he will be roaming the streets before those kids are grown. Then again, maybe they will all have a big reunion in prison in a few years.

You have more confidence in the judicial system then I do.

 

[funeralweb]

sent this to WISH TV admin:

To whom it may concern,

As a citizen of the City of Indianapolis, I have found myself mourning the loss of one of our police officers for the second time in less than a year. I found your story featuring Major Davis' family to be in extremely poor taste. In fact, it is disgusting and disrespectful not only to the family of Officer Renn, but to all the good citizens of this city. I am in shock that WISH TV would come up with this story, let alone publish it. No matter how you slice it, Major Davis was a convicted felon who used an illegally possessed firearm to murder a police officer. Nobody wants to hear his family's opinion on how he is a "good boy" and made a "mistake" and how it's the Officer's own fault that he got murdered. Davis murdered a police officer. He embodies the root of all crime in this city. Entitlement, lack of responsibility, lack of respect, lack of education, all these qualities are that of a career criminal, not an upstanding citizen. WISH TV should be ashamed to have published such a piece and I believe that you owe an apology to Officer Renn's family and to the citizens of the City of Indianapolis. I am truly disappointed in WISH TV.

Borrowed to send them as well.

 

[KG1]

Yes, who will almost certainly believe that he was 'taken away by those no-good police' rather than that he is in prison where he belongs for a senseless murder he committed of his own free will.

One can only imagine what those children's heads are being filled with. That family will never break the cycle. If these people ever want any hope of saving their families and communities that cycle MUST be broken.

 

[williamsburg]

Yes, who will almost certainly believe that he was 'taken away by those no-good police' rather than that he is in prison where he belongs for a senseless murder he committed of his own free will.

From the comments from the suspects family in the WISH TV article they have already started to exonerate the thug and vilify the officer. This is what these kids will believe, just like the suspect himself believed about his own fathers ill timed death. If his father would not have put himself in that situation then he may not have had his heart attack. If they want to lay blame then let's lay it where it belongs.

 

[EnochRoot43]

Do we correct crime by dealing with criminals or by dicking around with people over guns?

I appreciate your comments, and am totally on board with them. I recognize the slippery slope of gun laws, and celebrate every instance of rolling them back. What I am suggesting, however, is not the addition of any laws, but a bared-teeth assault on those who are in violation of existing laws by possessing weapons that they are forbidden to own. Now....I do believe that people lose their ability to own guns for some stupid reasons, and I would be in favor of only revoking gun privileges from serious violent felons, but that is a discussion for another day. The fact is, the huge percentage of homicides and shootings this year have been committed by people who weren't supposed to have a gun anyway. No law kept them from acquiring one, but maybe if we incentivize the community to keep their eyes open for bad guys with guns, we can get some of these firearms off the street before they are used to shoot another cop. A bonus to this strategy is the ability to nail some of these guys on "serious violent felon in possession of firearm" charges and lock them up.

We all know bad guys are the problem, not guns. But bad guys with guns are killing people, and anything that can put a dent in that within the confines of existing law ought to be looked at.

 

[calcot7]

I thought 10-0 was "Caution"

That confused me as well. I heard them say that EMS 'was' with the suspect and he was '10-0' meaning he was deceased.




Good!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

No law kept them from acquiring one, but maybe if we incentivize the community to keep their eyes open for bad guys with guns, we can get some of these firearms off the street before they are used to shoot another cop.

Good luck getting those kinds of people to rat each other out for having an illegal gun.

 

[churchmouse]

Not seeing any fighting...alternative points of view perhaps, but no fighting so to speak.

I am glad this has remained a discussion. There are many ways to look at this and we all see it through different eyes and life experiences.

Opinions and emotions.

 

[jfed85]

I just took my young daughter to pay her respects and hopefully teach her a valuable life lesson on respect, and the sacrifice that officers make for her on a regular basis.

RTV6 interviewed me as well about why I felt it necessary to take my young daughter out there.

She left ofc Renn her favorite teddy as I explained to her that this is how we say thank you.

It was an emotional experience, even more so than I anticipated, yet I'm glad I took this opportunity to show my respect to Mr Renn and his family.

 

[John317]

I just took my young daughter to pay her respects and hopefully teach her a valuable life lesson on respect, and the sacrifice that officers make for her on a regular basis.

RTV6 interviewed me as well about why I felt it necessary to take my young daughter out there.

She left ofc Renn her favorite teddy as I explained to her that this is how we say thank you.

It was an emotional experience, even more so than I anticipated, yet I'm glad I took this opportunity to show my respect to Mr Renn and his family.

 

[singlesix]

Wish-TV's New Director's response about coverage of the shooting:
News director addresses story response | WISH-TV

 

[phylodog]

"We have received numerous well deserved comments about a [STRIKE]story[/STRIKE] load of crap we covered on Sunday involving the family of Major Davis Jr., the [STRIKE]accused killer[/STRIKE] murderer of Officer Renn. As a news organization, we provide [STRIKE]balanced coverage and both sides of the story[/STRIKE] criticism, controversy and sensationalism. Our obligation to you is to cover every angle of a story. That obligation unfortunately, at times, includes uncomfortable subjects or comments that are difficult to hear, or even make you angry. And while we are journalists, everyone on our staff is human and damned sure knew it was wrong to give these parasites a public voice to spew their ignorance and hate we have similar reactions but alas, our souls are for sale. So these are situations we take very seriously.

By showing the other side, you were able to get the answer to “why someone would do this?” We wanted to give insight into the mind of the people/family who were involved so there was some context and exposure for you into this world. For us, freedom of the press means freedom from responsibility for our actions."

I made some corrections for him.