Impossible: 7 Found Dead in mass shooting in Australia.

[jamil]

I disagree with gun control, but this isn't the best argument. Nothing can ever be eliminated, only diminished. You can't say that their gun laws are useless and should be eliminated, because of this one instance, anymore than someone can say that illegal immigration laws are useless because illegals still enter the country.

My view of gun control is simple, and never changes: I don't care what criminals do, because criminals will always find away around law, but don't punish me by reducing my right to defend myself to the best of my ability, by whatever means I believe are best.

This is a good argument, but the other one isn't a bad reply to those who say the countries who tightly restrict guns just don't have these mass shootings.

Well. Yes. They do. It's useful to point out that while Australia has fewer mass shootings than we do, they don't have zero because determined criminals will find a way, as you say. And the former argument is actually needed to prove yours because yours depends on "criminals will always find away [sic] around the law."

The other side is pretty much saying it flat out doesn't happen. The Australian style gun control fans in the US keep saying that since they Australia did their buyback, there have been zero mass shootings, which is actually not true even not counting this one.

 

[jamil]

This is a tragedy and not something that should become a part of the gun debate.

No. It shouldn't. The left won't waste a crisis to peddle their politics, and we say that's bad. We should probably act like we believe it. I think it's fair though to let people know, when they say Australia doesn't have mass shootings, that yes indeed they do, and this isn't the only one.

 

[MCgrease08]

Obviously 7 people being murdered, including children, is horrible. There aren't many details yet, so I'll reserve comment until more is known.

But this clearly contradicts the narrative about Australian style gun control eliminating mass shootings.

Hopefully this will at least open some people's eyes.

https://apnews.com/c8b0e018b50e4f07...Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

The sarcasm of the "Impossible!" was, I believe, completely inappropriate, just as the sarcastic reaction has been when people have been murdered with knives instead of guns. I get the whole rights infringement thing, but I don't think that the deaths of others should be a platform for jokes or sarcasm about gun control.

My intent was certainly not meant to be sarcastic or joking in any way. That's why I went out of my way in the original post to say that the event was horrible and I would reserve further comment until we knew more about what happened. (See top quote.)

But like actaeon mentioned, the gun control crowd points to Australian style gun control as the shining city on the hill, a utopia we should emulate.

My only point is that as horrible and tragic as any mass shooting is, we can hope it will chip away at the cognitive dissonance in the minds of those unsure about gun control. Hopefully they will begin to see that the promises made by gun grabbers are ultimately empty promises.

 

[jamil]

The sarcasm of the "Impossible!" was, I believe, completely inappropriate, just as the sarcastic reaction has been when people have been murdered with knives instead of guns. I get the whole rights infringement thing, but I don't think that the deaths of others should be a platform for jokes or sarcasm about gun control.

I wouldn't exactly call it a platform. It's more like an off the cuff reaction that some people have. It doesn't mean that the people doing it aren't sufficiently reverent about the loss of life.

 

[jamil]

FBI doesnt count the shooter in the body count to qualify it.

However that doesnt stop the more recent gun grabbing groups from deviating from that methodology. There is one group, possibly Bloomberg's that uses the metric "at least 3 dead including the shooter". So a murder suicide love triangle would count as a mass shooting. Sorry, John catching his wife and his buddy in bed together, shooting them both and then shooting himself in the head is not a mass shooting. Its ridiculous how they are perverting the numbers to suit their agenda.

EDIT: This is the same group that skews school shooting stats by including shootings NEAR schools in their data. (drug deal gone bad on the sidewalk outside the school but none of the participants were students, bullet hits a school from an incident a block away was included, etc)

The thing that terrorizes people with mass shootings is the randomness. The loss of life his horrible. People can think about other horrific tragedies, which may even involve a little darwinism on some level, as something that couldn't happen to them. But random violence is more terrifying. And when people think of mass shootings, it's the random kind. So husband John, cheating wife and lover, that may satisfy the number of people claimed to call it "mass" shooting.

But it's just not the thing that really gets people stirred up to really want to do something about it, like they do when they start blaming guns and gun owners. In terms of what people actually fear about mass shootings like in Florida is the randomness, so it's really unfair to count that as the same kind of statistic as a domestic issue involving maybe a crazy person, and his family, which it sounds a lot like the Australia shooting might be.

 

[BugI02]

The sarcasm of the "Impossible!" was, I believe, completely inappropriate, just as the sarcastic reaction has been when people have been murdered with knives instead of guns. I get the whole rights infringement thing, but I don't think that the deaths of others should be a platform for jokes or sarcasm about gun control.

I have to disagree. It is a tragedy for the people that knew them and had them in their life. For everyone else, not so much

If a stranger, unfamiliar with the road, overcooks a corner and runs his motorcycle off the road near my house; I don't feel it as a personal tragedy. I feel some sadness but what I feel more is "A man's got to know his limitations"

Lives are cut short and people die all the time

 

[jamil]

I have to disagree. It is a tragedy for the people that knew them and had them in their life. For everyone else, not so much

If a stranger, unfamiliar with the road, overcooks a corner and runs his motorcycle off the road near my house; I don't feel it as a personal tragedy. I feel some sadness but what I feel more is "A man's got to know his limitations"

Lives are cut short and people die all the time

Although many people do feel empathy for others, you’re right. We have a social reverence for the dead. But mourning is for the living. And it’s usually reserved for thise closest to us. You hear about something like this that happens to people on the other end of the world, to people you don’t know, and what should be our response? How much reverence do Australians owe Americans killed in mass shootings? I’d say we have a moral obligation at least to tred lightly on the bodies of the dead to make political points.

 

[Alpo]

It's rather curious....someone here is trying to nanny-up INGO? Puhleeze.

I can't tell you how many times the success of Australia's gun control programs have been thrown out in a debate against American practices....even though Australia consists of a handful of major cities and is only 6.8% of our population. Their population density per square km is 2.7 compared with our 31.2.

On top of all that, they are more British than they are American in culture and, frankly, if one is not aware of those differences, there are plenty of articles on same. Personally, I think the Brits are about the most arrogant buttholes on the planet and Australians take their lead from them.

So, should I feel guilty about not caring if a family I don't know in a country I've come to generally despise gets whacked? NO. There are 7 billion of us on the planet. No need to get all PC over a statistically insignificant occurrence.

 

[shootersix]

i guess it's time for Australia to have ANOTHER gun buyback....cause that stops this kind of stuff from happening! (sorry, my keyboard is out of purple type!)

 

[Thor]

Since this story is in the public domain it is fair for public comment no matter what the sensibilities are. Whether it should be or not is up for debate but it's already out there.

 

[cbhausen]

I know several Aussies and yes the word is arrogance when it comes to guns and gun control. I was with several of them and a local news story came on about a shooting and their utter disdain for America and our Second Amendment literally oozed from their pores.

 

[rugertoter]

Well, no matter how "they" try to spin this for whatever political purpose, I pray for the souls of the ones who were killed. I cannot say, on this forum, what I would like to do to the "person" who committed this act.

 

[femurphy77]

This is a tragedy and not something that should become a part of the gun debate.

So. . . .I'm guessing you've been asleep since April '99?

 

[Tanfodude]

I disagree with gun control, but this isn't the best argument. Nothing can ever be eliminated, only diminished. You can't say that their gun laws are useless and should be eliminated, because of this one instance, anymore than someone can say that illegal immigration laws are useless because illegals still enter the country.

My view of gun control is simple, and never changes: I don't care what criminals do, because criminals will always find away around law, but don't punish me by reducing my right to defend myself to the best of my ability, by whatever means I believe are best.

This has been my point during debates.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

US Gun Controllers May Want to Rethink Using Australia As An Example - The Truth About Guns

Counting that incident in 1911, up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were a total of 16 mass/rampage/spree shootings over 85 years. That doesn’t include vehicular attacks or spats between biker gangs. That’s an average of one mass shooting incident every 5.26 years.

In the 22 years since the Port Arthur massacre, the average has been one every 3.14 years including the most recent incident. So the frequency has been INCREASING since the gun control NFA was passed.

 

[El-Cigarro]

This is a tragedy and not something that should become a part of the gun debate.

Tell that to the Antis down under......