Indiana Constitutional Carry-Summer Study thread (2017)

[gregr]

Easy, Greg. Hough is one of the good guys. It's not disdain you're seeing, it's familiarity and regular interaction with the less savory members of our society. Doing that for any length of time will make ANYone a little jaded.

Blessings,
Bill[/QUOT

I apologize. I forget temperance at times, but especially in regards to the natural Rights of citizens...

 

[Bill of Rights]

Easy, Greg. Hough is one of the good guys. It's not disdain you're seeing, it's familiarity and regular interaction with the less savory members of our society. Doing that for any length of time will make ANYone a little jaded.

Blessings,
Bill

I apologize. I forget temperance at times, but especially in regards to the natural Rights of citizens...

 

[KellyinAvon]

I heard on the radio this evening that the summer study committee has been assembled to study Indiana's Byzantine liquor laws. Apologies to any Byzantines I just insulted. Good to see our legislators will be protecting us from getting cold beer at a convenience store. Maybe we'll see some CC Summer Study action soon.

 

[brotherbill3]

I heard on the radio this evening that the summer study committee has been assembled to study Indiana's Byzantine liquor laws. Apologies to any Byzantines I just insulted. Good to see our legislators will be protecting us from getting cold beer at a convenience store. Maybe we'll see some CC Summer Study action soon.

I thought we got skipped - then I did a more thorough review of the agenda yesterday - after reading an e-mail (and link) from an "unfriendly to the issue" state senator - I found this in the agenda:

Agenda Link: https://iga.in.gov/static-documents/2/7/b/a/27badb77/exhibit_1532.pdf

SECTION 8.
(a) As used in this SECTION, "joint committee" refers to the joint committee established under subsection (b).
(b) The Joint Committee on Judiciary and Public Policy is established as a study committee.
(c) The joint committee consists of the members of the Senate Standing Committee on the Judiciary and the members of the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Public Policy.
(d) The chair of the Senate Standing Committee on the Judiciary is the chair of the joint committee. The chair of the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Public Policy is the vice-chair of the joint committee.
(e) Except as otherwise provided in this SECTION, IC 2-5-1.2 applies to the operation of the joint committee.
(f) The joint committee is charged with studying the following topics and submitting a report of its activities to the Legislative Council in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6 before November 1, 2017:
... (A) Repeal of the law that requires a person to obtain a license to carry a handgun in Indiana, including the following:
... ... ... (i) The fiscal impact of a repeal of the handgun licensure law.
... ... ... (ii) The issuance and use of reciprocity licenses.
... ... ... (iii) Any persons who should be prohibited from possessing or carrying a handgun.
... ... ... (iv) The rate in which handguns are used in suicides in Indiana.
... ... ... (v) The rate in which handguns are used in criminal acts in Indiana.
(Source: HEA 1071-2017, SECTION 4.)
... (B) The following:
... ... ... (i) Reduction of firearms violence in Indiana, including requiring background checks to be conducted by all gun show vendors at gun shows in Indiana.
... ... ... (ii) Increasing the number of law enforcement officers employed by local units of government in Indiana.
(Source: HB 1071-2017, House Motion #5.)
(g) This SECTION expires November 1, 2017.

So it appears that the study will proceed; but I am still after more info on this. Anyone with insights - fill me in on more details.

This was also "ONLY" the agenda - so I do not know the final 'minutes' or version of what was resolution may have become.

 

[Bill of Rights]

The chairman is the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee? DA*N!!! That's Senator Bray, who tried to send all of 1071, including Constitutional Carry AND the Domestic Violence victim part to summer study. This could be bad.

ETA: They're also apparently charged with studying "universal" background checks/ "closing the gun show loophole" (that anyone with a brain realizes does not exist.)

Anyone else have a read on this that differs?

Blessings,
Bill

I thought we got skipped - then I did a more thorough review of the agenda yesterday - after reading an e-mail (and link) from an "unfriendly to the issue" state senator - I found this in the agenda:

Agenda Link: https://iga.in.gov/static-documents/2/7/b/a/27badb77/exhibit_1532.pdf



So it appears that the study will proceed; but I am still after more info on this. Anyone with insights - fill me in on more details.

This was also "ONLY" the agenda - so I do not know the final 'minutes' or version of what was resolution may have become.

 

[KellyinAvon]

The chairman is the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee? DA*N!!! That's Senator Bray, who tried to send all of 1071, including Constitutional Carry AND the Domestic Violence victim part to summer study. This could be bad.

ETA: They're also apparently charged with studying "universal" background checks/ "closing the gun show loophole" (that anyone with a brain realizes does not exist.)

Anyone else have a read on this that differs?

Blessings,
Bill

We do have some good news: the vice chair of the committee is the House Public Policy Committee Chair, Rep Ben Smaltz.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I don't *think* Bray can table the issue, since they are directed to study it. My concern is that he can shape the language of the final report and make or break this for all of us. We already know that the gun grabbers will seize on anything they think or can twist to sound like it supports their position. We already know that Bray caved to the police brass groups who wailed and gnashed teeth and wrung hands over the very idea that the officers on the road would "not know who has a gun"... despite the fact that the only ones they know about now are the ones carried by people who will do them no harm.


It is my sincere hope that the assembled group can sway him and get the word out to the rest of the GA how the people want them to vote.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[chipbennett]

The chairman is the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee? DA*N!!! That's Senator Bray, who tried to send all of 1071, including Constitutional Carry AND the Domestic Violence victim part to summer study. This could be bad.

ETA: They're also apparently charged with studying "universal" background checks/ "closing the gun show loophole" (that anyone with a brain realizes does not exist.)

Anyone else have a read on this that differs?

Blessings,
Bill

I don't view that as a study of UBCs per se, but rather a very specific measure that other states have taken: requiring all gun show vendors to use BGCs for transfers of firearms. My take on that is: it seems that many gun shows are taking that measure on their own anyway, by having ground rules that require registered firearm vendors to use BGCs for transfers. I see it as much ado about nothing. It solves no problem, but creates no major problems. (There's not even much of a "slippery slope" if it were to be implemented.)

I'm more interested in these topics of study, in the context of constitutional carry:

(i) The fiscal impact of a repeal of the handgun licensure law.
(ii) The issuance and use of reciprocity licenses.
(iii) Any persons who should be prohibited from possessing or carrying a handgun.
(iv) The rate in which handguns are used in suicides in Indiana.
(v) The rate in which handguns are used in criminal acts in Indiana.

These seem to encapsulate most of the specious arguments against constitutional carry, so I hope that this study committee provides the opportunity to refute those specious arguments.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I hope the same, Chip. Of note, though, the language about the gun shows seems to me to point to the thing about the guy walking around the gun show with a "for sale" sign stuck in the barrel of the AK over his shoulder, the classic example they love to use to show that a felon can go to a gun show and buy a gun without the background check... in other words, a private party sale that can happen anywhere, and should be able to- not specifically to "a felon", but just the same as if I own two hammers and want to sell one to you, all I need to do is find you, the buyer, or you find me, the seller, and exchange money and goods... and hammers are just as deadly, if perhaps a shorter range weapon, as we all know.
I know that Reps Lucas and Smaltz, not to mention Mayfield and Judy, will do their best to keep this on track and stop this BS from going far, but again, my concern is that Bray as chairman could sway the final report of the study committee with language that casts doubt in the mind of the legislators reading it, where we want no doubt that Constitutional carry is a good idea, and will choose language that bolsters their view of the anti-gun measures discussed.

Yes, Bray has an (R) after his name.

So did Sen. Tom Wyss. We are far better with the latter out of the Senate.

Blessings,
Bill

I don't view that as a study of UBCs per se, but rather a very specific measure that other states have taken: requiring all gun show vendors to use BGCs for transfers of firearms. My take on that is: it seems that many gun shows are taking that measure on their own anyway, by having ground rules that require registered firearm vendors to use BGCs for transfers. I see it as much ado about nothing. It solves no problem, but creates no major problems. (There's not even much of a "slippery slope" if it were to be implemented.)

I'm more interested in these topics of study, in the context of constitutional carry:



These seem to encapsulate most of the specious arguments against constitutional carry, so I hope that this study committee provides the opportunity to refute those specious arguments.

 

[chipbennett]

I hope the same, Chip. Of note, though, the language about the gun shows seems to me to point to the thing about the guy walking around the gun show with a "for sale" sign stuck in the barrel of the AK over his shoulder, the classic example they love to use to show that a felon can go to a gun show and buy a gun without the background check... in other words, a private party sale that can happen anywhere, and should be able to- not specifically to "a felon", but just the same as if I own two hammers and want to sell one to you, all I need to do is find you, the buyer, or you find me, the seller, and exchange money and goods... and hammers are just as deadly, if perhaps a shorter range weapon, as we all know.

I agree that such a person is the caricature portrayed by our opponents; but, that person is explicitly NOT a "gun show vendor." That person is a gun show attendee.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I agree that such a person is the caricature portrayed by our opponents; but, that person is explicitly NOT a "gun show vendor." That person is a gun show attendee.

By definition, a vendor is a person who sells. All it takes is a cop, prosecutor, and judge looking to set a precedent. This should not be ignored or trivialized, but fought tooth and nail.

 

[chipbennett]

By definition, a vendor is a person who sells. All it takes is a cop, prosecutor, and judge looking to set a precedent. This should not be ignored or trivialized, but fought tooth and nail.

You certainly don't have to convince me. I'm in the "background checks are utterly ineffective and inherently unconstitutional" camp.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You certainly don't have to convince me. I'm in the "background checks are utterly ineffective and inherently unconstitutional" camp.

I gathered that from most of your posts, Chip. I just don't want our members, however few they may be who still believe govt to be benevolent to misidentify this threat. I know you know most of us who post here are well aware that we post to each other but for the benefit of the silent reader (aka lurker.)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[gglass]

^^^ Who you callin' a lurker?!?! ^^^

 

[Bill of Rights]

^^^ Who you callin' a lurker?!?! ^^^

With, at this writing, 1,891 posts, apparently not you.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Sunday afternoon bump! I've been keeping an eye on the Indiana General Assembly site, so far I see no activity on the summer study.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Sunday afternoon bump! I've been keeping an eye on the Indiana General Assembly site, so far I see no activity on the summer study.

When does the summer study have to report their findings?...Do they even have to form a conclusion?...

 

[brotherbill3]

When does the summer study have to report their findings?...Do they even have to form a conclusion?...

The report is due by Nov 1, 2017

Section 8 (f):

(f) The joint committee is charged with studying the following topics and submitting areport of its activities to the Legislative Council in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6 before
November 1, 2017

from: https://iga.in.gov/documents/27badb77

 

[brotherbill3]

Sunday afternoon bump! I've been keeping an eye on the Indiana General Assembly site, so far I see no activity on the summer study.

Same here. No news yet.

 

[brotherbill3]

Just a hint of an update, via the Book of Face .... Mr Lucas has indicated on his page that the initial draft is in progress, addressing the (valid) concerns that have been raised on previous versions.

Not sure when it will be available; but that it will get a thorough preliminary vetting was also noted.