Indiana legal AR15s, coming to a gunshop near you . . .

[melensdad]

OK well maybe not until next year, but the word from my sources INSIDE the Olympic Arms factory tells me that we may be seeing 2 new AR15 uppers that will make Indiana hunters happy.

Olympic is moving forward on a project that will provide a couple of big-bores for us. A 458 will be the first one off the block, and then probably a 35 cal.

These calibers will be based on the proven, and MUCH stronger WSSM case and bolt carrier/barrel extension system. The 30 caliber is moving forward as well, but I don't include that in a true Big Bore category and it will NOT be Indiana legal. Computer testing shows that ballistics will dwarf what you see in the 450 Bushmaster. They are working with HSM ammunition manufacturers as well as Hornady, unfortunately we will have to wait to see what direction they go as the project proceeds. It is not yet clear to me if Oly will push for a 458 WSSM or if they will go with a 458 Socom.

There is already a 358 WSSM that was developed by Mike Milli of Dedicated Technologies. He worked up the wildcat in conjunction with an Indiana hunter and he also works closely with some of the folks inside Olympic Arms since Olympic is the only AR manufacturer building WSSM upper receivers (other companies sell them under their own brand name, but Oly makes them under contract). To be legal in Indiana the WSSM case must be trimmed slightly. So we could see a 35 caliber wildcat turned into factory round that will blow away the ballistics of the very well respected 35 Remington!

 

[kludge]

I saw a .458 SOCOM at the Indy 1500, price was in the "no way" range for my wife for deer hunting.

And if the ammo price/brass price is anything like the other WSSM's, or the .458 SOCOM, forget it.

I would like to see a little carbine, like the Mini-14/30 chambered in 45 Win Mag or 10mm Magnum, plenty for deer, but are designed to operate in semi-auto guns, unlike most of the "pistol" calibers, and are easy to reload with readily available bullets and powders. A .45 Win Mag would be the perfect little carbine for home defense too.

I made one other discovery this weekend that hasn't left my mind - the 6mm BR, 6.5mm BR, 7mm BR cartridges were originally made from .308 Win brass that was shortened and reformed.

The 7mm BR necked up to 35 caliber (.358") would be legal for deer and loaded to 50,000 psi, might be on par with the .35 Remington. There are many good bullets out there for the reloader, the question in my mind is whether the velociy would be high enough for proper bullet expansion (a lot of the .35 cal bullets are for big game rifle hunting).

Plus the standard .308 bolt face can be used, .308 brass is more readily available, and rebarrelling a Model 10 Savage would be a cool project.

Any body got one they want to get rid of?

 

[melensdad]

The 7mm BR necked up to 35 caliber (.358") would be legal for deer and loaded to 50,000 psi, might be on par with the .35 Remington. There are many good bullets out there for the reloader, the question in my mind is whether the velociy would be high enough for proper bullet expansion (a lot of the .35 cal bullets are for big game rifle hunting).

Why don't you take a very serious look at the 35 Gremlin wildcat. I believe it is based on the 7.62x39 or the 6.5 Grendel case, necked up to accept a 358 bullet. Indiana deer legal. At that point you can use a rebarreled SKS or other inexpensive carbine, it would soften the recoil a bit too.

Here is a thread on the 35 Gremlin over the the 6.5 Grendel forums, pretty interesting reading: The 6.5 Grendel Forum :: For the 6.5 Grendel Aficionado - 35 Gremlin

 

[kludge]

Thanks for the link!. I hadn't heard about the Grendel/Gremlin before, although It would be cool to find one of the Mini-35's I read about. Following other links I found another guy who mentioned a curiosity about a .35/7mmBR.

This discussion would be moot if someone besides Puma made a .454 Lever action... I almost bought one last year, but passed on it... I've seen good and bad reviews, and I saw a bad one last week at the range... the guy at the range was having a real hard time zeroing it... and the magazine tube was unscrewing itself (after he just got it back from the smith who put locktite on the threads).

I really like the idea of having a rifle I can load up for almost anything I might want to hunt (300-350 gr. lead slugs for elk or bison, not likely, but I can dream) and load it down for plinking (200 gr. cowboy 45 Colt style at 800 fps), and somwhere in the middle, like a 255 gr. Keith LSWC at 1400 fps, that would go completely through a deer.

But for some reason the .44 Mag just doesn't appeal to me, nor does the .460 or .500 Magnum.

 

[Slow Hand]

I've got an older Rossi in .357 and a newer EMF made by Rossi in .45 Colt. The .45 will do quite well for deer. You can load it up to nearly equal a .454 handgun. Honestly, the olf standard of 9.0gr of Unique under a good cast SWC or quality JHP will do just fine on any Indiana deer and will not destroy your shoulder!

Doug K

 

[fpdshooter]

For what it's worth, Rock River Arms is making a .458 upper that is legal. I don't know the cost off the top of my head, but probably in the $500 area.

I know a couple of DNR officers who have them just for deer season.

 

[melensdad]

I see the RRA uppers for sale on Gunbroker.com all the time, the price is usually in the $650 range. That upper has been mentioned here on INGO a few times as being deer legal and I suspect it may become pretty popular here in Indiana just because the 458 Socom is deer legal, it is one of the few rifles that is easily available that is deer legal.

I think the problem with the 458 Socom are the same ones that might plague a 458 WSSM or a 358 WSSM . . . recoil and high cost per round. Many kids learn to hunt by going out with their fathers, put a lightweight AR15 into the hands of 12 year old that is chambered in 458 Socom and its sort of like hitting that kid in the shoulder with a brick. The 458 has a recoil that is easily managed by an adult but it close enough to a 12 gauge that it is pretty unpleasant for a child.

I'm still HOPING for a factory chambered 35 Gremlin or similar round that approximates the old 35 Remington. Modest power, modest recoil, w_i_d_e range of bullet choices, reasonable co$t to shoot, very effective out to 200 yards. With all those things in its favor, I doubt we will ever see it produced

 

[kludge]

The .458 I saw at the 1500 was $1200, IIRC, that makes the upper at least $750-$850, I don't remember the brand.

 

[45calibre]

what do you mean indiana legal? ar15s are illegal in indiana or something?

 

[melensdad]

what do you mean indiana legal? ar15s are illegal in indiana or something?

No it is to imply that AR15s in standard calibers are not legal for deer hunting (with the exception of the 458 Socom). But it looks like Olympic Arms may be chambering a couple of hunting legal chamberings and developing ammo with 2 different ammo makers for these new chamberings. There are also some wildcat chamberings that are starting to get some serious attention in the AR community that are legal for Indiana deer hunting.

 

[Unoid]

Nice to know. I'd love a .458 socom on the cheap.

 

[jhammond4]

the upper reciever today is going for about $700