Indiana Senator introduces bill for training requirements

[Kirk Freeman]

Originally Posted by TTravis What would be the effect of such a requirement?
I guess more states would allow us to carry with our Indiana LTCH because we would meet "their" requirements.

TTravis, no offense intended, but we know this because . . . ?

Indiana recognizes everyone, training is not a consideration.

 

[CTS]

There's a write-up on it here where she claims it's in response to the Trayvon Martin incident:

State senator proposes mandatory training for new handgun owners | Fox 59 News ? fox59.com

I find it comical that she would be using that as justification for this legislation. Zimmerman could have done a lot of things differently that night, but if anything failed him it wasn't his knowledge of how to use his firearm.

I'm with the majority here. Like any reasonable person, I'm 100% behind training, I think you're a dangerous idiot if you try to operate or carry a gun without knowing how to safely and effectively use it. I don't like the idea of a state mandate though. Even if it's a pretty light requirement at the beginning, depending on how it's setup it could easily be twisted into a major obstacle later. Say for instance they decided to leave the requirements for approved trainers up to the local CLEO...there are certainly none of those in this state who are hostile to private gun ownership.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yes. It is extremely bad. You're suffering from "Well, it doesn't affect me so, eff everyone else" disease. It's why we have so many gun laws now. The hunters support pistol laws because it doesn't affect their hunting. The self-defense carriers support rifle bans because it doesn't affect their Glock, and so forth. ALL gun infringements should be removed. Not just the ones that don't personally affect you.

I would start with your position and expand it to include any infringement on anyone. Tobacco is an easy example. I do not and never have smoked, consider it disgusting. The last time I personally dealt with it, I joined my dad and a couple other people for dinner at a restaurant (fortunately with a tile floor), one of the guys lit up, and I started moving immediately, but only made it about halfway up out of my chair before hurling. That said, I support his right to do with himself as he chooses and the establishment's right to allow or disallow such activity without .gov interference. After all, the same people who support taxes that approximately quadruple the cost of tobacco think we should have to pay taxes on ammunition in some proposals from the Clinton era as high as ten times the retail price of the ammunition. In the end, we are either in favor of liberty or in favor of statism, and we are past the point where we can sit on the fence and hope it goes away.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Never, but it never ceases to Amaze me that some folk here at INGO are willing to give up their Freedom without a Fuss

Most on INGO gladly gave up that freedom with the introduction of the lifetime LTCH and barely batted an eye at that infringement.

 

[GarryAlbin]

I contacted my State Senator. Do not support and vote no.

 

[Bunnykid68]

We need to be more like a few other states. Kentucky for example, you need no permit/license to open carry, but if you wish to carry in other states or carry concealed you must take a training class and get a permit/license.

 

[Iroquois]

First, as far as the relationship to Travon's case goes, I believe Florida has a training requirement....
Second, before we change any Indiana laws we need a study comparing our statistics ( murder rates, accidents, etc.) with states with stricter laws.
Unless there is strong evidence that suggests that training makes people more responible or much better shots it's pointless.
I would agree to get training if we changed to a two tier system and could gt prior agreement from most of those states that require training, including Illinois....as it sets now, we can only carry in the land of Lincoln if we aquire their permit at a cost of $300 ,not including paperwork and in state training
( $150-$250 more)...
Actually ,I would like to find State Senators willing to propose legislation that recipricates terms with our neighbor to the west. Illinois residents should show us proof of training and pay $300 to aquire an Indiana LTCH....any ideas how to push this idea?

 

[Scutter01]

Actually ,I would like to find State Senators willing to propose legislation that recipricates terms with our neighbor to the west. Illinois residents should show us proof of training and pay $300 to aquire an Indiana LTCH....any ideas how to push this idea?

I will not support any legislation that further restricts anyone's gun rights.

 

[IndyDave1776]

First, as far as the relationship to Travon's case goes, I believe Florida has a training requirement....
Second, before we change any Indiana laws we need a study comparing our statistics ( murder rates, accidents, etc.) with states with stricter laws.
Unless there is strong evidence that suggests that training makes people more responible or much better shots it's pointless.
I would agree to get training if we changed to a two tier system and could gt prior agreement from most of those states that require training, including Illinois....as it sets now, we can only carry in the land of Lincoln if we aquire their permit at a cost of $300 ,not including paperwork and in state training
( $150-$250 more)...
Actually ,I would like to find State Senators willing to propose legislation that recipricates terms with our neighbor to the west. Illinois residents should show us proof of training and pay $300 to aquire an Indiana LTCH....any ideas how to push this idea?

I will start with the previously-mentioned caveat that a two-tiered license system will likely end in one--the least restrictive--being found redundant and eliminated.

I also have a problem with reciprocal terms. It is something I have considered largely from an emotional perspective, but the problems are that it still flies in the face of honoring the Constitution, and further, it punishes people like us who have the bad fortune to feel compelled to remain in a state run by people like Nancy Pelosi, who experience no ill effect themselves.

 

[NHT3]

In the immortal words of Uncle Ted " for someone to tell me where, how and IF I can defend myself is [FONT=&amp]Preposterous[/FONT] " We are talking about a God given right IMHO. Having said that... If you are going to carry a handgun training is a great idea, mandatory training, not so much. How is the "mandatory" health care working out for everyone? On paper getting everyone trained is a great idea. Communism is a great idea on paper BUT it has always failed because those in charge, being human, tend to have their moral compass skewed by the power the wield. They may start with good intentions but generally end up standing on the little guy's throat telling him how well he's being treated.
Depending on Government for a fix for anything has proven, time after time to be a recipe for disaster. I don't know the answer but I do know that putting the State or Federal Government in charge and anything else is NOT the answer for any problem, perceived or otherwise, that we might have.
I do believe even most seasoned shooters would learn something in a NRA basic pistol class but putting the proverbial gun to their head to get them in the class is absolutely the wrong path to travel and we should all be screaming bloody murder before we let it happen.


For those new to the Forum, see below

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[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member~~ [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
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NRA Certified pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] ~~[/FONT]1911 Mechanic

 

[Jeepster48439]

Most on INGO gladly gave up that freedom with the introduction of the lifetime LTCH and barely batted an eye at that infringement.

At least we have a lifetime license option. I came from Michigan and you have to repeatedly relinquish your right every 5 years and pay big $$ to do so.

 

[Bunnykid68]

At least we have a lifetime license option. I came from Michigan and you have to repeatedly relinquish your right every 5 years and pay big $$ to do so.

What is the difference really? You paid for your privilege to get your lifetime instead of doing it every few years, you still do not have a right to carry a handgun.

 

[TTravis]

I know you are a lawyer and want a specific reference.
I don't have a reference for you but it was my understanding that some states don't want to honor our LTCH because:
1: We allow people to get LTCH without training, and their state requires training.
2: We do not have a picture on our LTCH.

This has been discussed on INGO before.

Training, even if not required could be noted or stamped on the LTCH, and a picture would be easy enough.

All I am saying is that some states look down on Indiana LTCH because we do not meet their requirements.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to be able to carry in any state with my Indiana LTCH as it is. I would like
to be able to carry anywhere without a LTCH. I do wish other states wold have our policy of recognizing everyone.

TTravis, no offense intended, but we know this because . . . ?

Indiana recognizes everyone, training is not a consideration.

 

[Scutter01]

What is the difference really? You paid for your privilege to get your lifetime instead of doing it every few years, you still do not have a right to carry a handgun.

Bunnykid is correct. Carrying a handgun in Indiana is a criminal offense (with certain exceptions) unless you have paid permission from your masters.

 

[actaeon277]

I also think people should get training, ............ voluntarily.

Let's see what happens (or may happen) with a training requirement.
A state, such as Illinois (or non-state such as DC), may make the training very onerous. Length of time, costs, requiring people to know useless information.... etc.

People may do the minimum. I did my training, I don't need anymore.

For many people the primary reason to carry is for self defense. Are you advocating that they wait for self defense till they are trained?
I have had an ex-gf that came to me to learn how to shoot. Turns out her husband was putting her in the hospital. Yup, she shoulda waited till she could get money and find a class.
Someone threatens to kill you or your family. Nope, can't carry to the store, you haven't had a class yet.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

All I am saying is that some states look down on Indiana LTCH because we do not meet their requirements.

Do we know this or think we know this?

Do we have an e-mail, telegram, gorillagram from another state saying that the reason they "look down" on Indiana's LTCH is because of training?

 

[Scutter01]

I know you are a lawyer and want a specific reference.
I don't have a reference for you but it was my understanding that some states don't want to honor our LTCH because:
1: We allow people to get LTCH without training, and their state requires training.
2: We do not have a picture on our LTCH.

This has been discussed on INGO before.

Training, even if not required could be noted or stamped on the LTCH, and a picture would be easy enough.

All I am saying is that some states look down on Indiana LTCH because we do not meet their requirements.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to be able to carry in any state with my Indiana LTCH as it is. I would like
to be able to carry anywhere without a LTCH. I do wish other states wold have our policy of recognizing everyone.

I am not interested in abrogating my Rights any further than they already are and especially not just to appease another state. Those other states could just as easily offer a non-resident permit that satisfies all of their training and ID requirements but they don't. What makes you think appeasing them will suddenly make them accept our license?

 

[Jeepster48439]

Bunnykid is correct. Carrying a handgun in Indiana is a criminal offense (with certain exceptions) unless you have paid permission from your masters.

My point is that at least we only have to pay once to the masters. Most everywhere else you have to pay continuously to the masters. Not saying that I like it or that it is not an infringement of our rights. The Michigan requirements for constant renewal and the high costs did present an obstacle to me pursuing the "privilege" of being able to carry when I lived in that State.

But this is getting off the subject of the OP and has nothing to do with the training requirement legislation.

I apologize for the digression.

 

[tobi]

I fully support people getting training...voluntarily. I would no more support manditory training for gun ownership or carry than I would reading comprehension testing prior to exercising one's right to vote. Well meaning people open the floodgates of allowing conditions upon rights and then realize later that they have no rights anymore.

"Reading comprehension testing prior to exercising one's right to vote" may not be all bad. Look what the current system got us!

 

[spec4]

Go to this socialist's site and check her out SB 46 and 47. This woman is a mini Sheila Lee Jackson, in other words a brainless liberal socialist. Can you folks in Indy get rid of her at the next election?