Indiana Sons of Liberty

[dhnorris]

how many ATF/FBI members advocating "teachin' them there sons o bidges a lesson"

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What you read was not the official stance of the organization it was a story of what happened to one individual who is not a member when they encountered a radical Muslim that’s all, there was nothing at all in that quote about him or anyone in our group hating or discriminating anyone!

Actually, its a copy of a disproven chain e-mail that's been making the rounds for at least 10 years. Given that its the ONLY post in your "religion" section, it just comes across as anti-Muslim.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Seems like you guys are trying to put together something beneficial as opposed to playing make believe like the majority of "militia" folks I've met.

I still think you'd be doing yourself a PR favor to get rid of "militia" and military ranks. I worked as a private security contractor for the military overseas for two years. Our ranks were guard, lead guard, guard shift supervisor, assistant project manager, and project manager. That was sufficient for a contract covering security for two installations, 3 shifts, about 150 armed guards and probably 35 unarmed support personnel. We weren't military any longer, and we didn't try to copy the military command structure.

Think of how many negative associations there are with militias, and how many vets would be leery of anyone who just assigned themselves a command rank because its their club house, so to speak. Now think of how differently you might be approached if you shrugged all that off by being the county coordinator for a 'mutual support group'. In the end, no functional difference, but in the eyes of the public and potential recruits its the difference between "Big Brothers program" and "Man/Boy relationship building".

 

[aaronhall84]

SAILOR- Your right, I don’t know who or what all of the members are, but the same is for any organization that you join. Look at how many child molester's have been sniffed out of the Catholic church or the Boy Scouts of America, it is sad but true. As far as vetting people, the leaders of each Brigade are responsible for meeting with each new member and showing them our mission statements and do and do not’s but any new member could lie about there beliefs you have to rely on the honesty of the individual but our policies are very firm on behavior in the ISL.

DHNORRIS- I know that there has to be Federal agents that are snooping on us and that’s fine they are doing their jobs, but we have nothing to hide as I said before WE ARE NOT ANTI-GOVERNMENT! and we do not tolerate illegal activity in the ISL so we have nothing to hide. If anyone is arrested in our group I am sure it will be because of there sole actions and not that of the group.

BEHINDBLUESI'S- I appreciate the research into that email, I will bring it to the attention of our acting state CO. I would not chose to re-name the group if it was my choice just because of the historical value, I care not what others think it is of value to me. As far as the ranks go, no one can self appoint their rank. The state CO was elected by the members when they first form as was the rank structure and now it is based on relative age, experience, and training and the state and Brigade leaders are voted on annually so I am told. As a veteran myself I would not subscribe to a rank structure that did not make sense and if it stops making sense then I will leave.

 

[TheDude]

It strikes me that the prejudice and stereotyping of militias is so similar to that of how antigun people feel about us.....ignorant and uneducated opinions.

 

[TEK]

...e SPLCs list last year.

those silly fools have a bunch of counties and munincipalities listed. Figure that one out! I dont think I like Elkhart much, but how does Mo Dees fundraising operation figure that it's worthy of his defamatory attention?

 

[TEK]

......DHNORRIS- I know that there has to be Federal agents that are snooping on us and that’s fine they are doing their jobs, but we have nothing to hide .......
......

for some of us we have a hard time forgetting the 90s and incidents like Randy Weaver who was entrapped by some biker trying to work off drug trouble by playing informant.

To be more clear, I dont suggest the problem is federal agents. federal agents are mostly like postal workers themselves, well meaning persons doing their jobs. Not very sexy like tv and rarely out there provoking and instigating. No but they do work from time to time with informers. Those nasty creatures. Do they inform about crime innocently, or make it up and then inform about it, to gain their meager incentives? One always wonders.

I think a lot of trouble is these mischevious informers that think they have blanket immunity to do nasty things so long as they can cooperate in a few busts. They are the ones that I believe are very much often out there in society causing problems, most of all with politically oriented prosecutions such as may crop up with "militias." Why there is one incident I recall, cant say the name, "Dogpatch militia" and it was supposed to be a big threat and there were all these charges and guess what happened? Charges eventually all dismissed by conscientious federal judge who saw through the bogus trumped up evidence. Somebody else may have the name, or a link, even though the exoneration was hardly reported at all, not a tenth as loudly as the charges were.

What might happen? a few well meaning people hang up shingle as militia, and then the various clowns out there getting paid or interviewing for jobs as informers, looking to score some points or cash with their handlers see easy pickings, and then enter your fold and then stir up trouble or provoke or entrap people, and then via the ambiguous magic of "attempt" and "conspiracy" charges, a lot of people suffer.

you sound like you mean well, but this concept seems as inoperable as ever.

the newer concept that requires less organizational effort to administer and maintain, than the socalled militia concept, would be: more local, natural, organic groups of people would take greater interest in self-organization to respond to emergency situations. that is like old fashioned neighborhood watch or parish charity groups or what have you. low profile, local, organic, perhaps more informal or not; but overall, more well worn paths that can simply be walked by people who have greater firearms training and willingness to be respond properly to SHTF. now this may be more boring neighbhorhood and charity type work and less fun than a "militia" but if you just want to shoot join a gun club and go to idpa matches and stuff.

join a food coop and see how they operate. lots to be learned from things like that. I recommend James Howard Kunstler's book "world made by hand" as a more feasible alternative vision to the John Wesley Rawles sort of thing.

I dont say this to be obstructive, rather if you take some time to unpack what I have said then you may actually get some ideas that help your organization be more effective in spite of the criticism.

 

[TEK]

this here http://www.indianasonsofliberty.com/showblog.asp?ID=31 is lala land stuff. this is not how any devolutionary nor revolutionary event occurs. large scale political changes are financed and organized by people who know what they are doing and they are not accidental. American war of independence, French, Soviet takeover and Soviet disintegration-- all those events show how well organized, well financed minorities initiated change and advanced it strategically, and the lots of supposed public support along the way--? Much we can see now was orchestrated and non-spontaneous.

There was a playright-- Ibsen maybe? Who said if you hang a rifle on the wall in the first act, you have to use it by the third. Ahab has to duel Moby Dick to the death. You give yourself a name like "Sons of liberty" then considering the namesake, what are you really trying to accomplish?

 

[Exodus]

So say someone was interested then what? What do new members do? What is required of new members? Where does your stockpile come from?

 

[aaronhall84]

TEK- You have read way to far into it this friend, we do not mind being under the magnifying glass as we do not have anything to hide, any organization is only as operable as its members make it and if it is doomed to failure then so be it but who are we to pass sentence on any group, community support groups are not a new concept and most of our members are also on the local CERT and involved in several other groups and programs including charities and adopt a highway, our organization is effective as long as we are able to help one person. The link that you posted is just a reference to what one LTC has wrote there is nothing wrote in there stating that is our policy or way of thinking. All of those articles that are on there get posted by the acting state CO and rotated randomly(to my knowledge), I did not select the name for the organization but i know that it does not imply anything, I am pretty sure that they were just trying to be patriotic.

EXODUS- If someone was interested they would have a meet and greet with there county leadership if any and would be invited to come to some sort of training event, there is no requirements for new members we do not tell you have to do anything, I do not understand what you mean when you say where does our "stockpile" come from?

 

[Exodus]

ZombiePanda thanks for taking the time to read my post I hope these answers help!

1.Because we are in fact a "militia". We prepare for disaster response/preparedness but we also prepare for open conflict with a armed hostile force.

3. Stockpiled Resources, Adopt a highway program, free training to the public, we put a team on alert anytime there is inclement weather.

Please don't take my questioning attitude the wrong way, I know I'm may seem as coming off harsh/negative, but that is not my intentions.

Where do your resources come from? Member donations, required donations, ISL makes its own money?

 

[spectre327]

for some of us we have a hard time forgetting the 90s and incidents like Randy Weaver who was entrapped by some biker trying to work off drug trouble by playing informant.

To be more clear, I dont suggest the problem is federal agents. federal agents are mostly like postal workers themselves, well meaning persons doing their jobs. Not very sexy like tv and rarely out there provoking and instigating. No but they do work from time to time with informers. Those nasty creatures. Do they inform about crime innocently, or make it up and then inform about it, to gain their meager incentives? One always wonders.

I think a lot of trouble is these mischevious informers that think they have blanket immunity to do nasty things so long as they can cooperate in a few busts. They are the ones that I believe are very much often out there in society causing problems, most of all with politically oriented prosecutions such as may crop up with "militias." Why there is one incident I recall, cant say the name, "Dogpatch militia" and it was supposed to be a big threat and there were all these charges and guess what happened? Charges eventually all dismissed by conscientious federal judge who saw through the bogus trumped up evidence. Somebody else may have the name, or a link, even though the exoneration was hardly reported at all, not a tenth as loudly as the charges were.

What might happen? a few well meaning people hang up shingle as militia, and then the various clowns out there getting paid or interviewing for jobs as informers, looking to score some points or cash with their handlers see easy pickings, and then enter your fold and then stir up trouble or provoke or entrap people, and then via the ambiguous magic of "attempt" and "conspiracy" charges, a lot of people suffer.

you sound like you mean well, but this concept seems as inoperable as ever.

the newer concept that requires less organizational effort to administer and maintain, than the socalled militia concept, would be: more local, natural, organic groups of people would take greater interest in self-organization to respond to emergency situations. that is like old fashioned neighborhood watch or parish charity groups or what have you. low profile, local, organic, perhaps more informal or not; but overall, more well worn paths that can simply be walked by people who have greater firearms training and willingness to be respond properly to SHTF. now this may be more boring neighbhorhood and charity type work and less fun than a "militia" but if you just want to shoot join a gun club and go to idpa matches and stuff.

join a food coop and see how they operate. lots to be learned from things like that. I recommend James Howard Kunstler's book "world made by hand" as a more feasible alternative vision to the John Wesley Rawles sort of thing.

I dont say this to be obstructive, rather if you take some time to unpack what I have said then you may actually get some ideas that help your organization be more effective in spite of the criticism.

It does not matter the structure of the group, nor the leadership, or size. What matters is intention. If the intention of a group, no matter how innocent they may seem, conflicts with any anti-2A government agency, nothing will stop infiltration and possible sabotage.

If you haven't noticed, simply applying for a LTCW labels you as a domestic terrorist. If it has gotten to such an individualized scale, it doesn't matter if it is a gun club, MSG, or militia group, the morons dressed in black will be watching.

All that matters now is the intentions of this group, what they support, how they support each other, and how they intend to support others.

The fact that Aaron has taken such a position to answer our questions definitely gives me relief, and the fact that has hasn't started bashing us for conflicting with him lets me know this ins't some dumb recruiting run by a self-indulged zealot looking for attention and recognition

 

[aaronhall84]

EXODUS- Anything that we have as a group comes from donations, there are no financial requirements in our group. We are developing a couple ways for the group to make money for training and equipment that will be spent based on majority vote.

SPECTRE327- Thank you for your canter, I started this thread just for this reason. It was not a recruitment drive at all, I simply wanted to get our group out into the open for Q&A and thus far I consider it a success.

 

[TheDude]

Welcome to INGO

 

[aaronhall84]

Thanks DUDE, HIS DUDENESS, EL DUDERINO!

 

[Lex Concord]

SPLC? Even the American Family Association made their list and the most militant thing they do is use forks and knives at dinner.

I'm guessing it's the big carving knives at Thanksgiving and Christmas that put them over the line

 

[HeadlessRoland]

LOL, I did kinda make it seem like a brochure didn't I! Well I didn't mean to sorry, I just got tired of nobody talking openly about what their group does and all of the bad publicity that militias get so I am putting myself out in the open for Q&A.

I have no questions and you have no answers.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

The bad publicity goes without saying. As the subject has been addressed previously, the militia is everyone (nationalization of the state militias 100 +/- years ago notwithstanding). The leftists in the media and elsewhere doesn't like that, so they demonize anyone who is so organized as to have the foggiest idea what they may do or fashion plans to work together in the event of a societal failure to function. As with any definable group, 'militias' will take in perfectly responsible neighbors as well as groups of people who, well, wouldn't make good neighbors. It is commendable that you would address something of this nature in a direct manner in the knowledge that a lot of assumptions will be made at the reading of the word 'militia'. It is also commendable that you did not introduce yourself with a recruitment drive (which has been done before).

Nailed it as per usual, Dave.

The militia is everyone, hence no need to form up small groups.

This is what bothers me the most about this entire introduction:

"as we do not consider our rank structure to be formal until such time that it becomes necessary"

OP had me at hello and lost me at "we're definitely planning something, we just don't want to tell you what we think might happen or will happen."

I'd rather stand on this side of the prison wall. I can dress up in fatigues and haul my fatbody through the woods on my own time.

In the unlikely event that I am wrong in any degree about who you are and what you are about, apologies to you, OP, and to

 

[Mudcat]

Thanks for answering the questions Aaron and welcome to INGO.

 

[Kmcinnes]

"we are not anti-government" with anti-Obama stuff on the main page (granted it changes to different pics as the page is refreshed).......hmmm, I don't like Obama at all but that just makes you guys look like all the other crazy radical right wing militias I have seen. We are all apart of the citizens militia......democrats, republicans, tea party, libertarians, all americans regardless of political affiliation. I thank you for your service to our country, but I just can't buy into it.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Militia.