Indiana State Government Center security theatre

[cordex]

It's been a few years since I've had to go to the Indiana State Government Center, but I had to go there today on business.

Last time I went, there were no checkpoints or metal detectors, and I don't recall there being signs up about prohibiting weapons. Things change, I suppose.

To begin with, I disagree with the notion that State offices should be gun-free zones in the first place. However, if you're going to prohibit guns, and you're further going to put a significant investment of public financial and personnel resources into security in an attempt to deny entry to anyone with a weapon, shouldn't you be halfway competent about it?

My issue with the security (postulating for the sake of argument that it is worthwhile to secure the state office building against weapons in the first place) is that it depended on people actually going through the single checkpoint. It's possible there are other checkpoints in other buildings, but it is the only one I saw where we were walking around. Since the building was not originally designed by paranoid politicians, there are a number of entrances. Many of these entrances are now locked from the outside and require a keycard to get in, but they are valid as exits. That being the case, I could pretty easily enter the building with no weapons and exit the building at another location to let someone else armed to the teeth in.

Beyond that, there are a number of buildings connected via tunnels. I'm not sure if the tunnel systems have their own checkpoints, or if all the buildings attached to the tunnel system have checkpoints, but one would have to be true in order to provide any semblance of security.

Another amusing thing - employees don't have to go through the metal detector. Thankfully government employees never go postal, right?

Anyway, the whole checkpoint effort is nothing more than feelgood crap. It's a waste of money, a waste of resources and a waste of time. I'm not sure what threat the checkpoint is designed to deter, but I found it laughable, somewhat disturbing and offensive.

 

[CarmelHP]

The was all Sen. Wyss' idea and he pushed it through with Indy area country club Republicans and Democrats only too happy to screw gun owners. It's an absolute waste of time and money and stupid to boot. When they changed over it went from you walking through the Capitol and never even seeing a uniformed police officer to at least three metal detector checkpoints manned by Capitol Police and surly, uppity rent-a-cops. It's an absolute disgrace to the state and should be returned to the way it was.

 

[pudly]

Another amusing thing - employees don't have to go through the metal detector. Thankfully government employees never go postal, right?

That was my main concern when I went in for my LTCH. I noticed that employees didn't go through the same scanning process. So a disgruntled worker wouldn't be slowed down by this arrangement. Sigh...

 

[dwh79]

If I read the law correctly it is not illeagal to enter a goverment building carrying a firearm. I do not see this listed in the code govering guns. I agree security there is a joke. I had the metal detector go off on me and as I tried to get my pencil out of my breast pocket which was open to easily see what I was doing the rent a cop flipped out. What a joke. Like you said if I wanted in I could have gotten in. This is a big waste of money.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Yep...just come in on the tunnel from the parking garage. Or hang some kind of "badge" from a lanyard around your neck...and then stand by an exit. Wait for someone to come out and viola.

OR, be on the phone outside an employee entrance and just wait for an employee to go in ahead of you...walk in the open door.

Or...or...or

You get the picture.

And if it wouldn't get me fired...I'd be tempted to do it myself.

-J-

 

[sloughfoot]

I feel the frustration. A couple of years ago the Allen County Courthouse completed a restoration that lasted several years. As a LEO, I was required to check my sidearm at the entrance because per the order of the Judges, no firearms are permitted in the building, even by LEO's.

As I would walk through the building under restoration, after mostly disarming, I noted box cutters, steel pipes, screwdrivers, hammers, drills. To make it short, all manner of weapons available to defendants and others in plain view in the hallways. Heck, when they were stripping paint or painting, I also observed chemical weapons in the hallways.

Craziness....I have absolutely no confidence in the ability of Gov to do anything right. I was a part of it for 12 years...

 

[rhino]

The worst part of all of this is how "they" pushed it through very quietly so it would essentially be a done deal before most people who would protest even knew about it.

This is the reason why I hold back when someone starts gushing about how great Gov. Daniels has been for gun owners. He could have easily stopped this, but instead he facilitated it.

There is no excuse for this crap. Many tax-paying voters are now completely cut-off from their legislator's offices and THEIR government center because of this crap. It's as if the Depts. of Administration, Homeland Security, and the State Police superintendant decided they owned the properties and could do what they wanted.

It's crap. I'm still pi**ed about it.

 

[Drail]

Go Rhino, GO! (I agree with you)

 

[rhino]

You are wise!

I also still believe that the Governor was influenced to do this by someone on the Federal level. I have no evidence to support it, but I "feel" it, which will no doubt elicit scorn and derision from some corners.

However, if I am correct, it makes it even worse.

When I talked to the (then) head of the Indiana Dept. of Homeland Security and the #2 guy in the Dept. of Administration, their big reason for this was "other states are doing it." It was the old, "Johnny threw a rock at the car, so I did it too!" weak-a** argument you get from a little kid. I responded with a less-then-respectful version of the classic, "If they jumped off of the Empire State Building, would you do it too?" routine. During the conversation the DHS guy got belligerent with me and one other guy (two of our members here were with me and witnessed this). They did not appreciate being challenged by a mere private citizen.

We appealed to the governor, and go no significant response. This was ALL on him. He may not have fabricated the details, and I doubt if it was his idea originall, but he approved it and had the power to stop it.

The public comment period was "announced" only in the Indiana Register, which was the absolute bare minimum required by law. We didn't learn about it until it was too late. This was their intent from the beginning.

Compare and contrast how Kyle Hupfer, former director of the Dept. of Natural Resources handled things when he initiated changes in DNR regulations that would remove impediments in the DNR administrative regulations preventing us from carrying on DNR property or carrying a handgun for personal defense while hunting. It was all above board, the public meetings (and there were several) were wll publicized well in advance, and the input from the public (on both sides of the issue) was recorded and considered.

Kyle Hupfer is The Man, and I greatly appreciate his service to the residents of Indiana. He's in private practice now, but I hope he returns to public service again someday becaue we need him and people like him.

 

[jsgolfman]

The last place a firearm should ever be prohibited is a government building.

 

[rhino]

The last place a firearm should ever be prohibited is a government building.

You could not be any more correct, sir. I salute you!

I wish more people could "get it," but apparently it escapes them, especially those who have eliminated our access to the gov't centers. Or worse yet, they do get it, but they choose to act badly on purpose.

 

[Bill of Rights]

True. And now I understand more where Tom Wyss' speech in the legislature last term came from. He threatened his fellow senators by saying that if SB 356 passed, he would never have another Indiana teenager page for him. Of note, he bragged about the fact that he had an IN LTCH in his pocket, but he did not trust himself to hit his target if shots rang out from the gallery while he was speaking on the Senate floor. He made some snotty remark to another senator, I think one from the Bloomington area, but not for sure, about the campus "down there" not being safe anymore, because the "kids" would be out tapping a keg with a .357 on their hips. In the end, he and Senators Alting, Becker, Kenley, Lawson, Lubbers, and Merritt, along with all the Democrats, kept a bill from passing to the House that would have reversed this action by the Dept. of Administration.

That's right, it's not a law, it's a rule from that dept. which has force of law.

Our governor could reverse this rule but chooses not to do so, though it is claimed that he cannot.

And by the way, Indy_Guy_77, last session when I was down there to lobby for that bill's passage, another member of this board and I DID pass through the keycard doors several times on the heels of those who had cards. Sen. Nugent commented that he had not used his keycard all week while down there. Now, to be honest, no, I was not carrying while there, because I am one of those folks who obey the law, but had I been, I could have passed in and out of that building repeatedly without anyone being the wiser. FWIW, I was not on the phone nor even mimicking being on the phone. We just stood by the door and waited for someone who passed by without even paying attention to the fact that there was someone standing there. No fake badge around our necks, no nothing. We just walked in behind them. Yes, it is "feel good" stuff, and no, it's not effective.

Rhino, you have reason to be pi$$ed off about that, and no, you're not the only one.

Good for you for hitting them with the "if they jumped off a building" retort, too. Rep'd.

Blessings,
B

 

[rhino]

Another thing that bothered me is that the guy who was head of Indiana DHS then and I graduated from the same small college. I actually remembered seeing him in the hallways in his ROTC uniform (he was a couple of years ahead of me). It was doubly embarrassing that someone who should know better would do what he did.

In addition to the rule being inherent wrong, it also creates a special class of people which is contrary to the Indiana Consitution. The rules allow for legislators and judges to carry on the premises if they have a valid License to Carry Handgun. How the Hell are they more qualified to carry than someone else??? The people who crafted the rule knew fully well that if they tried to bar legislators from carrying that they'd pay for it via legislation. I don't know if a backroom deal was worked or if they just did it to avoid the fight, but they did it.

And, of course, all employees with ID cards can bypass the security checks. Yeah, they have "rules" that forbid them from carrying, but rules don't stop people, regardless of their intent. And as BOR noted, it's easy to go in and out as you please.

The whole thing is so wrong and so stupid and so poorly conceived and so wrong (year, I'm redundant) that it makes me as angry as the global warming scam does.

 

[Bill of Rights]

In addition to the rule being inherent wrong, it also creates a special class of people which is contrary to the Indiana Consitution. The rules allow for legislators and judges to carry on the premises if they have a valid License to Carry Handgun.

It does create a special class of people, or to quote Sen. Nugent, last session, it creates "second class citizens" of not only us but of the secretaries and other workers with whom the legislators trust their lives. In addition, it also makes everyone who is not a legislator, judge, or LEO defenseless when enroute to or from that building.

Isn't it nice to know how little our legislators think of us?

Blessings,
B