Indiana State Multigun Championship - CANCELLED

[chizzle]

How to avoid situations like this in the future...

I always tend to be the Peace Maker (the "get along" kind, not the famous Colt revolver kind), so bear with me. Based on what I'm reading, here's the life lessons that I learned from this thread that could help people get along in the future:

1) Minimize the number of bays that you take, trying to leave some open for other shooters when at all possible
2) Make sure the range schedule is clear before you head to the range
3) Make sure you actually read the range schedule
4) A gun range is not a good place to practice your comedy routine; be polite and respectful, especially if you may be wrong
5) Incorporate non-member fees (typically an extra $5) into your match fee structure; this helps members understand that non-members are contributing to the club. This will also encourage participants of your shooting discipline to join the club, which may be handy when called to vote on important issues. This will also help fund discipline-specific improvements for the club, without draining the main checking account.
6) Understand that your club membership pays to keep the lights on, but isn't necessarily a pass to shoot at the club 24/7/365. Other members may reserve the club for matches where many members and non-members participate.
7) Remember that while you enjoy your particular shooting discipline, that there are other folks who are equally passionate about theirs.
8) Incorporate new and growing disciplines into your club schedule; this encourages new shooters. Failure to do this can result in a club demographic of primarily older shooters, which isn't sustainable long-term.
9) Make sure rule proposals are thought out, and members have a time to comment on them (a month or more) before making changes. Quick rules changes can result in frustrated membership, cancelled matches, and additonal drama at the next meeting. Better off to "measure twice and cut once". Also, it's important that the rules are logical and philosphically consistent, and don't appear punitive towards any specific group.
10) If you're frustrated by a club rule or policy, it is not appropriate to take it out on your fellow shooters, especially while on the range. Take a well though out (maybe even written so you have time to organize your thoughts) proposal to the Board meeting to respectfully discuss your concerns.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Mog]

The issue of the state multigun match taking up the range was addressed during the vote by the membership. The votes in favor were overwhelming.
M

Oh, THAT explains how it got to be a "SAFETY" issue.

 

[gunbunny]

(First off - Chizzle - thanks for the summary. Well written. Also, genuine condolences on the loss of the Multi-gun match, and appreciation for the people who worked on it.)

Second - I was at the meeting where Appleseed made their pitch. I don't remember the pitch being either awe-inspiring or bad - it was just a general pitch for use of the range. The request was declined in the same manner many others have been. Maybe it was brusque - meetings are long, and crowded, and as efficient as possible. It wasn't shot down in flames; it was just not something the club selected to do. That's the club's right. Every gun club faces limitations in finances, time, range availability and availability of membership volunteers. It does no credit to the Appleseed program to be fundamentally outraged and horrified that it couldn't be hosted at any particular club. It sounds like it's been hosted successfully at a number of Indiana clubs. Win some, lose some, keep trying.

It's a private facility, not a public swimming pool. No one needs to be peeing in it or on it or around it...

Third - It would really be a benefit to have a bay or two left available for members. I'm a member, I own a calendar, and I have still (a few times) bought a new gun and box of ammo and driven directly to the range with wanton schoolgirl-ish excitement. It really spoils the glee of having a new rifle when you get to the range and realize it will be four hours before you can shoot... It's a large club with many ranges. At least one bay should be able to go spare for 99% of the year.

Fourth - if time constraints were a factor leading to the cancellation of the match due to uncertainly with the rules, then it might help to plan extra time into the preparation schedule for future matches. If problems like this are expected, then adding some extra time might help it be possible to get to match day despite some conflicts.

Finally - I've never seen a knee-jerk takeover of a club lead to long-term success. It's better to work on changing the hearts and minds of the people who have already made the time to check the mail, pay the bills, do the taxes, buy the targets... than it is to find a team of people willing to make a long-term commitment to ensuring those things will happen year-by-year. As a shooting community we don't have enough time and resources to work on the solutions we need - let alone for tearing each other down.

 

[downzero]

There are safety problems with leaving a bay open. If a match is going on, the range is cold, and for good reason.

I would personally oppose any efforts to allow unsupervised shooting while a match was in progress. It'd create too many problems.

It's a shame to hear that the match is cancelled as well, despite the fact that I don't have the money to travel or shoot any majors this year.

 

[Trickpony]

There have been some really good comments here (and lots of funny ones). Thanks to those that understand the hard work that went into the Multigun match planning. Cancelling the match was an embarrassment to the folks who worked so hard to ensure the match would have been a success. And the club. Especially when we had to explain some of the determining factors behind the cancellation to the shooters that were already registered for the match, the NRA, Brownells, MidwayUSA, Universal Shooting Academy, and many other sponsors who donated thousands of dollars worth of merchandise to the event in hopes of seeing a new shooting venue in Indiana... We were going to see some big names in attendance; Jerry Miculek, Tony Holmes, Jeff Cramblit, representatives from the NRA, Noveske shooting team, Loki Weapon Systems, Universal Shooting Academy, Shooters Connection, and possibly Chad Adams from 3Gun nation to name a few.

Yeah, we could have held the match regardless of what the club said about safety (we've been shooting rifles into the side berms for years with no ill effects) but we decided to abide by the clubs wishes for now in hopes of growing Multigun even bigger in the years to come. Wildcat Valley Rifle & Multigun Club is a ways off but...

I realize that asking them to change their match design at such a late date was probably an insurmountable request. However, with today's society leaning towards litigation at every opportunity, what would be the result of an incident resulting from shooting into the side berms? My club's insurance might cover, but what else? Possible closure of my club? Due to actions not in accordance with my clubs requirements? No thanks.

I do empathize for Multigun, but we are a private club, with our rules. Safety First. Always.



ol' poke

I totally agree ol' poke! In this case, only at this club, I see no reason why ANY shooting discipline should safely be allowed to fire rounds from any firearm into the side berms or the ground Or up in the air for that matter (and especially over one of the main roads on club grounds).

I'm glad a few people noticed that the rule change was sudden. What most don't know is that it was across the board... Well, until they realized they were affecting other shooting disciplines besides Multigun Once they realized it affected Cowboy and others they quickly changed their tune to only exclude rifle rounds from being fired into the ground or side berms. The concern should be with handgun rounds impacting the side berms or the ground, ever shoot a rock with a handgun? Not so safe... I've shot all over North America, at many a side berm and thousands of shots into the ground and have never had anyone tell me that was an unsafe practice. Even in Canada for goodness sake

I hope WVRPC gets their ***** together quick - they need some new faces on the board and they need to boot the safety member who is asking folks to hide in bushes to scout for safety problems at Highpower events - what an ID10T. They need to buy some new land so that the pistol disciplines can have a dedicated place to hold their matches. Or they need to raise the yearly dues to $5k/year and remove all the shooting sports to favor those club members who want to shoot 24/7/365

 

[chizzle]

There have been some really good comments here (and lots of funny ones). Thanks to those that understand the hard work that went into the Multigun match planning. Cancelling the match was an embarrassment to the folks who worked so hard to ensure the match would have been a success. And the club. Especially when we had to explain some of the determining factors behind the cancellation to the shooters that were already registered for the match, the NRA, Brownells, MidwayUSA, Universal Shooting Academy, and many other sponsors who donated thousands of dollars worth of merchandise to the event in hopes of seeing a new shooting venue in Indiana... We were going to see some big names in attendance; Jerry Miculek, Tony Holmes, Jeff Cramblit, representatives from the NRA, Noveske shooting team, Loki Weapon Systems, Universal Shooting Academy, Shooters Connection, and possibly Chad Adams from 3Gun nation to name a few.

Sounds like you guys were planning a top-notch match. What do you think the financial impact would have been on Wildcat? Not trying to put you on the spot, just curious if you had a ballpark number for what this would have meant to the club.

 

[singlesix]

What charter is Wildcat under. 501 C 7? This should drive what activities the club engages in. Read the requirements of maintaining a 501 C designation. It is eye opening.

 

[Trickpony]

Sounds like you guys were planning a top-notch match. What do you think the financial impact would have been on Wildcat? Not trying to put you on the spot, just curious if you had a ballpark number for what this would have meant to the club.

We were paying the club $5000+ for exclusive use of the range for 4 days. Not much but it's way more than I've ever paid a range for similar events. We wanted this match to put Indiana on the map for Multigun...

 

[Mog]

We were paying the club $5000+ for exclusive use of the range for 4 days. QUOTE]

In DUES PAYING MEMBER time that's about 50 years!!

 

[Mog]

It does no credit to the Appleseed program to be fundamentally outraged and horrified that it couldn't be hosted at any particular club. It sounds like it's been hosted successfully at a number of Indiana clubs. Win some, lose some, keep trying.

Appleseed was NOT "fundamentally outraged and horrified", they made their pitch and when it was rejected, simply went elsewhere. *I* posted about it, as a member there I was very disappointed that my club refused the opportunity to host this great program.

 

[patton487]

Yes, the lack of respect of due paying members of the host club can create issues for an organization that wishes to run its matches.

Some may take offense to being disrespected and wish not to be hospitable to those organizations which wish to use the range of the dues paying member. Water off my back, just call me a duck.

Yes. For crybaby whiners

Maybe you would like to make up the $5000 in lost revenue to the club?

Your one of those guys that thinks his measly $100 bucks a year should give you 24/7 access. I doesn't work that way.

 

[birdo]

As someone who has been a match director, I would think it would be very difficult to hold a match under rules that change month-to-month. With the complexity of a multigun match, I can see how the match directors felt the need to cancel the match after Wildcat's temporary rule change. If you had 100+ shooters travelling in from all over the country and Wildcat made another "temporary rule change" that greatly limited the multigun match, I could see how the match directors could end up with a bunch of really ticked off competitors and could be left scrambling to redesign stages that took months to prepare.

This comment hit the nail on the head, that's the exact reason we cancelled. We can not be expected to hit a moving target. All the stage design and debugging that was done flew out the window at the drop of a dime.

And when I say we, I mean the match directors, and Wildcat members. We are both. It is not an outside the range activity, this is a normal club hosted sport at Wildcat. I am a club member as well as a volunteer/match director. Though after some of the happenings lately and comments here, I am much less the latter.

I already have a job in the govt, I don't need to deal with people's petty politics just to be a volunteer. I don't want power, I just want to shoot and provide the atmosphere for good shooting sports. To those members of clubs who frown upon occasional public matches, shame on you, you are not being ambassadors for the shooting sports, or your club, you are impeding every shooting sport's chance for growth and acceptance.