Indianapolis detective fires at car in church parking lot

[Indy_Guy_77]

Indianapolis detective fires at car in church parking lot

NorthIndyStar.com | North Marion County, Indiana, breaking news, photos, things to do | IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star

An off-duty Indianapolis Metropolitan Police detective fired shots at a motorist who he said tried to run him over in a church parking lot Sunday morning on the Northeastside.

Det. James Carver had been attending services at the Castleton Christian Church 7214 Hague Rd., when he saw three men trying to break into a white 1999 Ford van. One of the men broke the front window of the van and stole something from it.

When Carver tried to intervene the men got into a white Chrysler from the late 1980s with chrome spoke rims, revved the engine and drove straight toward him, according to a report from the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department.

Carver sidestepped the car and fired several shots at it as it sped away.

Police said there was a chance someone inside was hit by the shots and the car likely has bullet holes on the driver's side.

The victim said the thieves took a street navigation system, some karate medals and a wooden necklace with a cross.

 

[jedi]

Ya in Indy are always in the news in a bad way. Me thinks it's worse than GARY!

 

[henktermaat]

I hope those karate medals were worth it.

 

[Denny347]

Ya in Indy are always in the news in a bad way. Me thinks it's worse than GARY!

It is not as bad as it is portraid in the news. I grew up here, live and work in the same area (east side of indy). Obviously I have inside knowledge of the crime rates out here. It really isn't as bad as it sounds. Most of our violent crimes involve criminals as victims and suspects. Truly innocent people are rarely victims of violent crime here.

 

[LEaSH]

... Most of our violent crimes involve criminals as victims and suspects. Truly innocent people are rarely victims of violent crime here.

Most incidents are between shady characters, I agree.

It's the smaller group that gets my attention. The 62 year old VP lady, The young guy shot through the spine while walking his dog, those are just a couple that are recent and stand out in my mind.

Few and far between, but not enough. Disturbing, but it's the way things are right now.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

It is not as bad as it is portraid in the news. I grew up here, live and work in the same area (east side of indy). Obviously I have inside knowledge of the crime rates out here. It really isn't as bad as it sounds. Most of our violent crimes involve criminals as victims and suspects. Truly innocent people are rarely victims of violent crime here.

Yup...

If you look at straight homicide rates, Indianapolis has a higher rate than the largest cities in the country.

But, practically speaking, the majority of these homicides seem to be where the deceased had gotten themselves mixed in with risky behavior (ie criminal enterprises).

But, violent crime can and does happen everywhere. Which is why most of us are armed a goodly portion of the time.

-J-

 

[kludge]

Carver sidestepped the car and fired several shots at it as it sped away.

So....

Here's our next "Are you going to jail?" question.

Car driving toward/at you = justified.

Car speeding away = PO'd cop who should get his gun and badge taken away?


What the wintesses are saying? Poor choice of words by the reporter?

 

[LLDJR]

Church parking lots are targets for sure, we patrol our parking lot every Sunday

 

[Denny347]

Yup...

If you look at straight homicide rates, Indianapolis has a higher rate than the largest cities in the country.

But, practically speaking, the majority of these homicides seem to be where the deceased had gotten themselves mixed in with risky behavior (ie criminal enterprises).

But, violent crime can and does happen everywhere. Which is why most of us are armed a goodly portion of the time.

-J-

I found this interesting web site to compare crime in cities.
Crime Statistics - CityRating.com
I did notice that as of 2008, LA has a population of 3,838,838 with 515 homicides (1.75 times the national average) and Indy has a population of 800,167 with 107 homicides (1.75 times the average as well). Interestingly enough LA has an officer to citizen ration of 1 to 426. NYC 1 to 228, Chicago 1 to 216, Philadelphia 1 to 219. Indianapolis is 1 to 345. LA has stated that they are hugely understaffed currently and need to add 17,000 officers to reach NYC's ratio (NYC is only .96 times the national average in homicides). IMPD is currently operating under a severe shortage and that affects pro-activity tremendously. We cannot hire enough good officers fast enough nor have the funds to hire what we want. I am not sure how we can improve our statistics without more help. Even still, the crime rate here does not bother me. I grew up here, my wife is from Jersey City. We are used to this and adjust our habits that make us the most safe while still enjoying ourselves. Neither of us are very comfortable in the country and are rather like fish out of water. I guess it is all in what you are used to .

 

[Indy317]

It is not as bad as it is portraid in the news. I grew up here, live and work in the same area (east side of indy). Obviously I have inside knowledge of the crime rates out here. It really isn't as bad as it sounds. Most of our violent crimes involve criminals as victims and suspects. Truly innocent people are rarely victims of violent crime here.

It depends on what kind of crime you are talking about. Out here on the far east side, burglaries are through the roof. I just signed up for town of Cumberland PD notices. Lots of burglaries, attempted burglaries, a search of a home nearby with lots of stolen goods, a car jacking....it seems like it won't ever end. Good job to CPD and IMPD though. They got a lot of stolen property back and made an arrest at the home with stolen goods. The burglars who ended up carjacking a person got stopped by IMPD and two thugs taken off the street.

So one would think things would slow down, nope. Wife comes home and says there are two county cars at the corner home. Folks just moved in a few months back. Said one car had a big tackle box type thing out...sounds like ET stuff to me. My guess is the guy came home to find his backdoor kicked in. Downtown Indy sees tons of thefts from vehicles.

Property crime is high, very high. If you don't have an alarm system, get one. Get a safe as well. Start telling people you have been selling things off...electronics, guns, jewelry, gold/silver coins, etc.. Make them think you are transferring things to cash, which is sitting safely in a bank. This could prevent the wrong person from hearing about your goods later on.

Problem is that all these thugs get slaps on the wrist, in almost any county. No enough jail space in Marion Co. and most of the surrounding counties are iffy. If they go to prison, not enough state money to hire additional guards even though space is available. We need billion dollar football stadiums before we need adequate jail/prison space.

IMPD is currently operating under a severe shortage and that affects pro-activity tremendously. We cannot hire enough good officers fast enough nor have the funds to hire what we want. I am not sure how we can improve our statistics without more help.

If you bump the pay up to about $75K/year, more folks would likely apply. Until then, why apply to IMPD when one can get basically the same money/benefits at Fishers, Carmel, Noblesville, Brownsburg, Hamilton Co. SD, Hendricks Co. SD, and Greenwood and have a lot few runs? Not only that, how is the department in terms of top heaviness? Do they have officers running things like the gun permit section? Auto desk? etc.?

Even still, the crime rate here does not bother me. I grew up here, my wife is from Jersey City. We are used to this and adjust our habits that make us the most safe while still enjoying ourselves. Neither of us are very comfortable in the country and are rather like fish out of water. I guess it is all in what you are used to.

Some folks like the sounds of gunfire in back alley ways, dangerous fluoride levels in their drinking water, neighbors that burn their trash, etc.. Others like $5,000 septic tank failures, having large yards and paying folks to spray chemicals all over it..then let their kids play in it, and the dark of night.

Me, I want to be in Rapid City, Cheyenne, Billings, Kalispell, Whitefish, or Boise. Not totally rural, but not so populated to have the issues we see with Indy.

 

[38special]

So....

Here's our next "Are you going to jail?" question.

Car driving toward/at you = justified.

Car speeding away = PO'd cop who should get his gun and badge taken away?


What the wintesses are saying? Poor choice of words by the reporter?

Feel like opening a can of worms today? (ibtl)

Anyway....the cop was completely justified IMO. If they threatened his life, they may well be threatening others with their motor vehicle, thus justified under IC.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

Originally Posted by Denny347
IMPD is currently operating under a severe shortage and that affects pro-activity tremendously. We cannot hire enough good officers fast enough nor have the funds to hire what we want. I am not sure how we can improve our statistics without more help.

If you bump the pay up to about $75K/year, more folks would likely apply. Until then, why apply to IMPD when one can get basically the same money/benefits at Fishers, Carmel, Noblesville, Brownsburg, Hamilton Co. SD, Hendricks Co. SD, and Greenwood and have a lot few runs? Not only that, how is the department in terms of top heaviness? Do they have officers running things like the gun permit section? Auto desk? etc.?

...or the State legislature could get wild and crazy and get rid of the idiotic maximum age limit of 36 that is currently imposed for joining the state's public servant pension system...

 

[Indy317]

...or the State legislature could get wild and crazy and get rid of the idiotic maximum age limit of 36 that is currently imposed for joining the state's public servant pension system...

It was attempted two years ago, but the bill went no where. It actually allowed municipalities to decide if they wanted to allow this or not. Not only that, there was an estimate they used and the hire would have to front money and buy in service time. I am not sure how much money it would take, but it would still be worth it in the long term.

 

[IUGradStudent]

I hope those karate medals were worth it.

Seriously.

Feel like opening a can of worms today? (ibtl)

Anyway....the cop was completely justified IMO. If they threatened his life, they may well be threatening others with their motor vehicle, thus justified under IC.

How is this different than a robber breaking into your house, you confront him with a weapon, he runs away, and you shoot him in the back?

My understanding is the homeowner would not be justified in shooting. Perhaps you could articulate why the cop can shoot. "May well be threatening others" doesn't seem to cut it. Can he shoot to try to blow out tires?

If the car is circling back -- shoot.

If the car is aiming toward others -- shoot.

If the car is headed toward a place where there are lots of pedestrians -- shoot.

If the car is driving away -- no shoot.

I think we need more details...

 

[DesertDoc]

Police need four things to use deadly force.

Jeopardy-Officer must feel he or the public are in emminent danger involving death or injury.

Capability-Suspect must have the tools needed to do harm to you or the public.

Intent-Suspect must have the intention to do you harm

Oppurtunity-Suspect must have a chance to do you or the public harm.

If the IMPD Officer can articulate that he felt his or someone else life was in danger than I think he will be fine. Obviously the suspect had the capability with a 3,000 pound car. He had the intent to do harm if he attempted to run over the officer. And we know he had the oppurtunity to do harm as well. These three things make up Jeopardy which is what he must prove. I was not there so I dont know but I would bet he will be cleared of all wrong doing unless some witness contradicts his story.

 

[Rogue42]

I was not there so I dont know but I would bet he will be cleared of all wrong doing unless some witness contradicts his story.

Agree, unless we hear some other details he will probably be justified in the end. The shots were into the side of the door, so the officer had mad the decision to fire as the car approached not after it left (unless he fired at the side from a distance as it turned or something).

Again we don't know details yet and are just arm chair QB'ing, one of everyone's favorite past times online. We can guess and suppose but don't know for sure.

 

[boman]

he will probably be justified in the end

I don't care about the law in this case---he did the right thing in trying to kill those "b&76%ds." I'd give him a medal!

from what I've seen however---

who he said tried to run him over

is the most common way police justify shooting at a car containing fleeing suspects.



Steve

 

[38special]

Police need four things to use deadly force.

Jeopardy-Officer must feel he or the public are in emminent danger involving death or injury.

Capability-Suspect must have the tools needed to do harm to you or the public.

Intent-Suspect must have the intention to do you harm

Oppurtunity-Suspect must have a chance to do you or the public harm.

If the IMPD Officer can articulate that he felt his or someone else life was in danger than I think he will be fine. Obviously the suspect had the capability with a 3,000 pound car. He had the intent to do harm if he attempted to run over the officer. And we know he had the oppurtunity to do harm as well. These three things make up Jeopardy which is what he must prove. I was not there so I dont know but I would bet he will be cleared of all wrong doing unless some witness contradicts his story.

That's what I was trying to articulate, but you did a much better job

He could (depending on more details) very well have felt like others lives were in jeopardy and as a police officer (not a random home-robbery victim) can make that call.