Indianapolis Redline. Beginning of a Cluster F%&*

[churchmouse]

I can't wait to see what a EL or subway would look like. We already have a semi-permanent homeless camp under the south street bridge (right next to the new cityway development). If the bums had a tunnel to live in, I'm sure they'd just be over the moon.

Bums. That is what my parents called them and I do to this day. In certain company that is because so many enlightened and woke female types are very sensitive to thee people.

 

[MarkC]

I can't wait to see what a EL or subway would look like. We already have a semi-permanent homeless camp under the south street bridge (right next to the new cityway development). If the bums had a tunnel to live in, I'm sure they'd just be over the moon.

Although not related directly to the mass transit/Red Line issue, how Indianapolis deals with the homeless is another issue. When the Red Line was free during late summer, there were two men with what appeared to be all their stuff just hanging out on the nice, new air conditioned bus. It is impossible to walk down Washington Street without having to step over or around one of the semi-permanent homeless person bed spaces.

Appellate courts have approve "sit-lie" ordinances, allowing cities to enforce laws against sitting or lying on a public sidewalk. However, the Ninth Circuit has invalidated Boise, Idaho's ordinance, finding it criminalized being poor, basically (Ninth Circuit-no surprise). However, there would have to be governmental will to actually create an effective ordinance that meets the requirements of federal case law, and then actively go out and enforce it.

Homeless people are a multi-faceted problem, a problem aggravated, in a large way, by the lack of mental health treatment capacity, especially inpatient settings. As there is no single cause to homelessness, there is no easy answer.

 

[churchmouse]

Although not related directly to the mass transit/Red Line issue, how Indianapolis deals with the homeless is another issue. When the Red Line was free during late summer, there were two men with what appeared to be all their stuff just hanging out on the nice, new air conditioned bus. It is impossible to walk down Washington Street without having to step over or around one of the semi-permanent homeless person bed spaces.

Appellate courts have approve "sit-lie" ordinances, allowing cities to enforce laws against sitting or lying on a public sidewalk. However, the Ninth Circuit has invalidated Boise, Idaho's ordinance, finding it criminalized being poor, basically (Ninth Circuit-no surprise). However, there would have to be governmental will to actually create an effective ordinance that meets the requirements of federal case law, and then actively go out and enforce it.

Homeless people are a multi-faceted problem, a problem aggravated, in a large way, by the lack of mental health treatment capacity, especially inpatient settings. As there is no single cause to homelessness, there is no easy answer.

A good "Start" would be to put Central state back on line in a newer and better managed facility.

Just for starters.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Although not related directly to the mass transit/Red Line issue, how Indianapolis deals with the homeless is another issue. When the Red Line was free during late summer, there were two men with what appeared to be all their stuff just hanging out on the nice, new air conditioned bus. It is impossible to walk down Washington Street without having to step over or around one of the semi-permanent homeless person bed spaces.

Appellate courts have approve "sit-lie" ordinances, allowing cities to enforce laws against sitting or lying on a public sidewalk. However, the Ninth Circuit has invalidated Boise, Idaho's ordinance, finding it criminalized being poor, basically (Ninth Circuit-no surprise). However, there would have to be governmental will to actually create an effective ordinance that meets the requirements of federal case law, and then actively go out and enforce it.

Homeless people are a multi-faceted problem, a problem aggravated, in a large way, by the lack of mental health treatment capacity, especially inpatient settings. As there is no single cause to homelessness, there is no easy answer.

When I was in Portland, their train was basically a homeless shelter and all the people just shrug and look the other way. Then people wonder why no one wants to use mass transit. Like others have said, it's a last resort.

The bums in the south street bridge have tents and other semi-permanent shelters in place. They are starting to get aggressive now and are defending territory. I saw one guy do the traditional shirt removal and charge to chase off an interloper. I would think it would be in the best interest of the cityway development owners to petition the good mayor hogset to do something about it. They have cleared it out before with hazmat (I actually think someone may have died), but it didn't take the bums long to come back and set up their tents and start ****ting in buckets again.

It's absolutely disgusting, and I would be surprised if there are some major health hazards.

 

[Cameramonkey]

So as of today, the Red Line is starting to charge to ride. A weekly pass is $20. I don't spend $20 a week in gas driving to and from work. So the incentive to use mass transit is what again? Not to mention that the Red Line doesn't go to where I work...

I looked into riding the bus to my office. Its across town, and is 30 minutes without traffic, 45 in traffic.

Its a 3 hour trip each way if I wanted to take the bus, and I wouldnt save much on gas because I already drive a sub compact car.

Or they will skew the figures as is so often done.

I'm sure they already have a laundry list of excuses why ridership will tank. Not a one of them will be "We shouldnt have built it because our city isnt built in a way that is conducive to mass transit" or "Residents really didnt want it or need it."

 

[BugI02]

Pretty much. Indygo got a $75M federal grant for the Redline construction. Look! Free money, Indy citizens are so lucky.
A year later Indygo is pushing the theme What's a Redline without a Blueline? So they got a $100M tax increase. Citizens actually voted to raise their taxes.
We'll never see the end of tax increases because now they are Too Big to Fail.

Here in Columbus (OH) our bus service wrangled a permanent addition to the sales tax to fund its operation. CEO makes $303k, CFO $217k and are likely pretty connected to the machine and 'give back' some of their generous salaries to the Democratic Party

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Veterans with a DD214 or VA ID card can get a pass for free Indygo fares. The card costs $2 and a trip to the transit center across from the City-County Building. It took me all of about five minutes to get one. My wife and I like to hop on the Red Line from the Government Center to Fountain Square for lunch. If there was an express that led from where we live to downtown, we would consider it. However, as many others have noted in this thread, the bus service is very slow, and it is much easier for us to drive downtown. Until they can make more of Indygo more user-friendly and attractive, it will continue to be only the ride of last resort for those who lack other reasonable options.

I wouldn't count on them making it easier or more attractive...at least in the manner you probably have in mind. Government types know they can make the unpleasant and frustrating more appealing by making the current, more attractive alternative less so. Look for them to make it more and more difficult and expensive to drive and/or park where you want to.

 

[DRob]

Word is Redline riders were going to have to start paying 12/1. Watch the ridership fall off now!

 

[churchmouse]

I looked into riding the bus to my office. Its across town, and is 30 minutes without traffic, 45 in traffic.

Its a 3 hour trip each way if I wanted to take the bus, and I wouldnt save much on gas because I already drive a sub compact car.



I'm sure they already have a laundry list of excuses why ridership will tank. Not a one of them will be "We shouldnt have built it because our city isnt built in a way that is conducive to mass transit" or "Residents really didnt want it or need it."

Did not the residents already say no to this idiocy...???

 

[ATOMonkey]

Did not the residents already say no to this idiocy...???

All the hippy dippy leftists (from many generations) think that this thing is just the bee's knees.

How much did hogset win by again?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Did not the residents already say no to this idiocy...???

Yes, but our elected leaders decided we were ignorant and chose to approve the project anyway. And most people arent paying enough attention so there isnt likely to be backlash. At least not for several years. And then maybe not ever. Yeah, some businesses were inconvenienced. But I dont go there, so it doesnt matter to me. Traffic snarled? Same thing. I live and work elsewhere so I dont really care. Sadly this is the attitude of most folks in this city.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I looked into riding the bus to my office. Its across town, and is 30 minutes without traffic, 45 in traffic.

Its a 3 hour trip each way if I wanted to take the bus, and I wouldnt save much on gas because I already drive a sub compact car.

I am not even sure how to get to a bus stop close enough to my house to make this even slightly feasible. The only thing that would have made sense was the "Green Line" (that they cancelled) from the airport to downtown, and I think it was like a $5 ride at the time. It made absolutely no sense. And then you still have to contend with the issue that buses only run every so often. Need to pick up the kids at school because they're sick? Well, I guess you're taking a cab.

I'll keep driving my car. Even with "horrible" traffic this morning, it still only took me about 30 minutes to get from Plainfield to downtown and parked. If I need to get from my garage to military park or the zoo or whatever, I'll just grab one of those little scooters. That's only if I'm being lazy. The city just really isn't that big.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes, but our elected leaders decided we were ignorant and chose to approve the project anyway. And most people arent paying enough attention so there isnt likely to be backlash. At least not for several years. And then maybe not ever. Yeah, some businesses were inconvenienced. But I dont go there, so it doesnt matter to me. Traffic snarled? Same thing. I live and work elsewhere so I dont really care. Sadly this is the attitude of most folks in this city.

The fix was already in. Promises made. Money and power being distributed. It is the way of the machine.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Just like bike lanes or the Palladium in Carmel. Trendy, progressive, useless and a black hole for taxpayer dollars.

 

[Dead Duck]

Just like bike lanes or the Palladium in Carmel. Trendy, progressive, useless and a black hole for taxpayer dollars.

Well....
The money's not going to launder itself.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I can't wait to see what a EL or subway would look like. We already have a semi-permanent homeless camp under the south street bridge (right next to the new cityway development). If the bums had a tunnel to live in, I'm sure they'd just be over the moon.

Wasn't there a "tunnel" of sorts that ran under the Washington St. bridge over the river, just west of Victory Field for awhile? I think they blocked it off somehow because the homeless were living in it.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I looked into riding the bus to my office. Its across town, and is 30 minutes without traffic, 45 in traffic.

Its a 3 hour trip each way if I wanted to take the bus, and I wouldnt save much on gas because I already drive a sub compact car.



I'm sure they already have a laundry list of excuses why ridership will tank. Not a one of them will be "We shouldnt have built it because our city isnt built in a way that is conducive to mass transit" or "Residents really didnt want it or need it."

I've always said that I would use mass transit if I could walk out to the end of my driveway and have a bus ready to take me where I wanted to go. Without stops along the way... just straight to my destination. Oh and then when I was ready to come home (or go somewhere else) it would be waiting to take me to my next destination. As it is, I have to drive almost 2 miles just to get to the nearest bus stop, and I live about half a block west of Meridian St., one of the major arteries... but no bus line. Closest one is over on Madison Avenue.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I wouldn't count on them making it easier or more attractive...at least in the manner you probably have in mind. Government types know they can make the unpleasant and frustrating more appealing by making the current, more attractive alternative less so. Look for them to make it more and more difficult and expensive to drive and/or park where you want to.

The *******s at the Urban Times are already specifically advocating for that.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The *******s at the Urban Times are already specifically advocating for that.

These people are as predictable as the sunrise. And it will probably sail through too. We suck at activism.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I had to take College from 38th to 71st. In both trips, I saw combined a whole 2 busses and 1 person waiting at a stop. Couldnt see inside the busses to see how many people were inside. But I'd venture to guess they were pretty empty.

And LOTS of construction guys ripping up the rubber barrier, trenching where it was, and pouring a concrete barrier in its place. What a cluster.