Interesting Comment from a LEO to Another After Use of Force

[CTS]

I don't know if you guys follow this channel or not, but the Police Activity Channel on Youtube contains some amazing footage that is also often instructional. In this particular video an officer stopped someone walking along I-75 between of Dayton and Cincinnati. The guy ends up pulling a knife on him and the office shows a heck of a lot more restraint than I would have. Once the situation is resolved the officer starts to retell the events and another recommends he stop making any statements for the time being. I know it's part and parcel here, but I feel this is extremely good corroboration of why so many in the self defense community recommend not making any statements immediately after a self-defense situation. Even the police recommend against it.

Obviously the officer was 100% in the clear and did a remarkable job of handling the situation, but the recommendation to keep quiet was a good one. Hopped up on adrenaline and being mentally exhausted he might have inadvertently said something that would be contradicted by his bodycam footage. Some lawyer might have then tried to argue that the officer was clearly trying to misrepresent the encounter. At any rate, good work by this officer, my hat is off to him.

[video=youtube;4buDqSE3Vx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4buDqSE3Vx4[/video]

 

[roscott]

Amazing how quickly things can go south. Glad the officer is ok. These kinds of videos are good training for anyone that carries a gun.

 

[Denny347]

The advise is solid for anyone. While I didn't shoot anyone, I had an incident where I was taken to talk to homicide. My lawyer met me there and stated that while I was free to do as I pleased, his advise was to NOT give a statement. I took it. There were other witnesses at the scene for them to interview so there was no reason for me to give one at all.

 

[lrahm]

I agree, my body cam should be enough without saying a word. If I perceive something that was not on the camera ... am I wrong? Being a city officer, we usually have at least 5 - 6 cameras going at one time. This is really great when reporting force or reviewing force.

 

[Joniki]

When that officer backed on to the highway, I cringed.

 

[Expat]

I was a little surprised he let the guy walk into the stopped vehicles area

 

[GunSlinger]

I think the officer showed great restraint by not firing again. It looked to me as if the knife guy was going for suicide by cop. Glad the officer didn't grant that guys death wish.

 

[Alamo]

I would say the advice to watch what you say, and say nothing if possible, at the scene of an "event" is probably a lot more broadly applicable than is generally discussed. Officer-worn video/audio recorders -- and similar devices carried by others, like bystanders with phones -- don't just record what the officer and the immediate object of his attention is doing, it can capture lots of things around it.

Say you are responding firefighter/EMT to an incident. Doesn't have to be a shooting incident. There are generally cops around, and often bystanders, so everything you are doing may be recorded one way or another. Even after you package the patient(s) and send them on their way, the crisis seems over, some deputy you're chitchatting with asks you what was wrong with that guy anyway? What you are saying may very well be recorded, and discoverable by various parties. So you could find yourself in court explaining to the deceased's family lawyers why you really did give the patient 100% live-saving effort even though the deputy's recording has you saying "...just another drunken ***hole who should never be allowed to drive again...I hate guys like that" or some such.

 

[lrahm]

I would say the advice to watch what you say, and say nothing if possible, at the scene of an "event" is probably a lot more broadly applicable than is generally discussed. Officer-worn video/audio recorders -- and similar devices carried by others, like bystanders with phones -- don't just record what the officer and the immediate object of his attention is doing, it can capture lots of things around it.

Say you are responding firefighter/EMT to an incident. Doesn't have to be a shooting incident. There are generally cops around, and often bystanders, so everything you are doing may be recorded one way or another. Even after you package the patient(s) and send them on their way, the crisis seems over, some deputy you're chitchatting with asks you what was wrong with that guy anyway? What you are saying may very well be recorded, and discoverable by various parties. So you could find yourself in court explaining to the deceased's family lawyers why you really did give the patient 100% live-saving effort even though the deputy's recording has you saying "...just another drunken ***hole who should never be allowed to drive again...I hate guys like that" or some such.

We have to live with that and we all feel that way about people who never should drive again. It doesn't take away from the service we provide. So it's said, big deal. The family already probably knows they have a problem and they haven't been a solution to that problem. Word of advice, I have a little place that I watch and stop cars who park the wrong way at a liquor store. They cross a double yellow line to get there (PC). I rarely catch drunk drivers but you would not believe the number of suspended infraction/prior, HTV, no insurance or has never received a license. I would be on the low side if I said 70%.

In short be careful of other drivers. If you get into a wreck, demand an officer. Don't trust the other person to contact you. Get a good license number or a cell phone picture.

 

[seagullplayer]

It was very fortunate that back-up arrived that quickly.
It gave the officer more options, and more time before he was forced to do something nobody wanted.
Looks to me like it may have saved the suspect's life.

Keeping quite is good advice anytime emotions are high, just ask any marriage councilor...

 

[Spear Dane]

Hooooly cow. 'Fantastic' is right. That officer did a tremendous job. It was almost heartbreaking. You could tell he truly did NOT want to put that guy down. The guy was clearly messed up in the head. Man oh man what a video.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Once the situation is resolved the officer starts to retell the events and another recommends he stop making any statements for the time being.

During depositions following the death of an offender I was asked if I talked the incident over with any other officers, involved or not involved. Making statements to each other at the time of the incident can easily be spun as "getting your story straight". I was able to truthfully say I had not, outside of the required IA interview.

As far as the incident, I personally am not backing into a lane of travel on the interstate. That's simply too dangerous. I'll give knife guy room to change his mind, but not at the risk of getting run over or causing a crash, nor would I allow him near civilians and vehicles that could result in an attempt carjacking to escape, etc. In short, I likely would have shot him much earlier. It panned out, so good on the officers involved, and maybe the cop could see traffic was stopped before he backed into the lane which would invalidate my first point if true.

 

[CTS]

As far as the incident, I personally am not backing into a lane of travel on the interstate. That's simply too dangerous. I'll give knife guy room to change his mind, but not at the risk of getting run over or causing a crash, nor would I allow him near civilians and vehicles that could result in an attempt carjacking to escape, etc. In short, I likely would have shot him much earlier. It panned out, so good on the officers involved, and maybe the cop could see traffic was stopped before he backed into the lane which would invalidate my first point if true.

Yeah, I had some similar thoughts, but chalked it up to the officer having a much better viewing angle than the camera. Personally speaking once he started heading toward civilian cars I would like to think I probably would have granted him his wish, but I dislike Monday morning quarter backing. I personally probably would have unloaded on him the second I saw the knife and then (or possibly while) pissed myself and collapsed sobbing, but I guess you never know. I had to draw once and that scared the hell out of me enough that I know I never want to come that close to shooting someone again because I was about .5 seconds away from pulling the trigger. I still can't express enough thanks to the officers who responded when that happened. They were amazing to me and about as kind and courteous as I imagine they could be in those circumstances.

 

[rw496]

That was a great video, and I'm glad it worked out. I guess you never really know for sure what you would do in a situation, but in training for scenarios like that I've never fired just one shot.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Did anyone pick up any indicators before he pulled the knife? When the officer told him he was going to pat him down, the guy's demeanor changes then he pulls. Before that I saw/heard nothing that would tip a person off, not even in hindsight. I watch this stuff to try to learn what to look for. What am I missing?

 

[halfmileharry]

Abdomen hit didn't keep the guy down. Officer needs Charmin.
LEO showed a lot of restraint with only 1 rd discharged. I always believed in "in for a dime...in for a dollar".
This situation was drawn out for an eternity.
Glad officer is physically fine.
You LEOs can have that job and Thank you for your efforts guys (and gal)

 

[glockednlocked]

First and foremost another illustration of why we owe a great debt to those who keep us safe. I respect that in many ways this is by far the hardest time in history to put that badge on everyday. I also stipulate I have never been in a situation such as we see in the video so I will not judge the officer.. but I have to say the brave officer risking HIS life to to "save" Mr. McStabby is his choice. If he gets gutted that is HIS choice, When it no longer is his choice is when he lets it get into traffic and starts risking (potentially fatally)innocent drivers. Or when he puts officers running to save HIM in potentially lethal positions because he will not/Cannot take the shot. How is our young hero to be seen if his risked life is spared but Mr. Stabby sticks another officer who cant take a shot because of angles or our hero in the way? or a motorist stopped by the man in roadway becomes hostage or stabbing victim? This officer should get awards and medals from the local mental health groups and praise for his "restraint" from those on the internet. Truth is it turned out ok so maybe he was spot on. The cynic in me wonders though who would feed his kids and pay his mortgage if he got himself killed or maimed being so "patient" with this "patient" or "client" or whatever politically correct term we should use for the armed criminal who endangered multiple officers and private citizens? The first instinctive shot spoke the truth that all the back peddling and shaking dialogue tainted. Stabby probably needed shot and shot again until the threat ended.

 

[afcolt]

That officer was absolutely courageous. I think in some cases, it shows a lot more courage to use restraint. I don't know that I would have been able to do the same, but I'm relieved he's ok.

 

[CTS]

Did anyone pick up any indicators before he pulled the knife? When the officer told him he was going to pat him down, the guy's demeanor changes then he pulls. Before that I saw/heard nothing that would tip a person off, not even in hindsight. I watch this stuff to try to learn what to look for. What am I missing?

Nothing on camera as far as I can see. The guy went from 0 to "kill me" in about a second. Just another example of why I tend to give the police a lot of slack, you never know when the crazy is about to come out.

 

[Scout103]

As I hope to join these men and women one day. I have nothing, but respect for all of them. The backup response was quick, but I'm sure felt like an eternity to the officer. If I was in that stopped traffic and seeing that the officer was alone. Did it occur to anyone, you could jump in and help? Thoughts from the LEOs? I tend to be alone on this, with the people I talk to.