Investing

[Enkrypter]

Out of all the things mentioned no one has said LAND! Land is the only thing they aren't making any more of. It's by far the best investment anyone can ever make, aside from investing in the means to protect it.

Pay off your debts ASAP. Unemployment will be high when the SHTF. Ain't no point prepping if you don't own the roof over your preps and the bank comes knocking to collect.

 

[GIJEW]

I agree with preps 1st, investing in precious metals like canned goods, guns, and ammo, but if you've got tax deferred savings you can't really touch, there are IRAs in physical gold&silver that could be a hedge against currency collapse. Like, has already been said, 5% of your portfolio, and I'm not talking about worthless ETFs that would disappear with the rest of the market. The one concern I have with a 'gold IRA' is that the gold will be stored in a vault somewhere else and even if .gov didn't confiscate it for national security purposes, YOU could have a hard time getting it--FedEx/UPS might not be delivering and "bugging out" to go collect your gold probably wouldn't be practical.

 

[MohawkSlim]

What if you have silver and nobody wants your silver?

 

[17 squirrel]

What if you have silver and nobody wants your silver?

Yep...that's my thinking.. I believe if it truly gets that bad,.. A firearm and steely nerves will get what you want.

 

[bulletsmith]

Yep...that's my thinking.. I believe if it truly gets that bad,.. A firearm and steely nerves will get what you want.

This is my thoughts. In a SHTF scenario I'd bet that survival and protection supplies would be far more valuable than hunks of metal.

I also believe that there is a greater likelihood that you will grow old, need to put your kids through school, and be able to support yourself and spouse in retirement, before SHTF happens. I'm not saying not to prepare to handle anything that is thrown at you, just don't miss the forest for the trees.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Putting a little here and there into precious metals is a great idea. I know some on here say not to but I disagree. My grandpa always bought me silver as a kid and I do the same for my daughter, niece and nephew.

Do a little reading and see where the prices are at. Gold is at something like a six year low and silver is close to that.

I firmly believe one of two things will happen.

The price will always go back up.
If the SHTF precious metals will be worth having.

Have you ever done a comparison of what it would be worth if he had bought stock for you instead? Yes it's "worth more" in dollar than it was when he bought it but it's "value" is relatively the same. It doesn't "grow value" it "maintains value".

I certainly understand everybody has different goals and desires, and I'm not saying PMs are worthless; they have their time and place. I just feel that MANY people totally misunderstand them and when they are valuable.

You are basically paying cash in a round-about way.

Cash-back/rewards is a major advantage as well as "payment delay". I get 5% cashback on gas, groceries, and pharmacy. Coincidentally, gas & groceries are my 2 largest monthly expenses outside of various insurance premiums & mortgage payment. If I can get cash-back on those items it's "better than paying cash". As a matter of fact, I just redeemed $125 in cashback for a statement credit last night... and that was only 5 months of cashback accumulation.

"Payment delay" is a phenomenon that many don't consider. My power bill can be paid by check, or by CC over the phone. It is due by the 26th of each month; if I pay by check the money leaves my account on or before the 26th. However, if I pay it after the 22nd using my CC that has a billing cycle that ends on the 22nd, that money doesn't leave my account until nearly 2 months later. Wait, how can that be? The CC billing cycle ends on the 22nd, the payment for my power bill occurs at the very beginning of a billing cycle so the cycle doesn't even end for another month, then I have 3 weeks to make the payment to the CC. So I get 1 month + 3 weeks of extra time to keep that money in my account, bearing interest. It doesn't sound like much but consider that my average monthly combined CC balance is $2k (paid off every month) which comprises the vast majority of our monthly household expenses, my account bears 1% interest and the "average payment delay amount" is around 30 days, that totals up to an extra $20 in my pocket in addition to the cashback.

Throw in any 0% interest offers and I can sometimes carry a balance for well over a year only making the minimum payment (earning interest on the cash sitting in my account). Then when the 0% interest period is coming to an end, entire balance is paid off. IE, my wife currently has a card that has about $10,000 balance on 0% interest. It's almost been a year on it and she has several more month to go before the 0% period ends. As a result I can keep that $10k in my account for 1 yr (or more) earning 1% interest (or I can even invest it in the stock mkt if I'm willing to gamble and maybe make even more than that). Extra interest earned: $100

The 0% offers can also help a tax savvy or financially savvy person advantage their finances for various reasons by carrying expenses from one year to another. I won't go into detail on that because it's getting way outside of this discussion.

 

[Jackson]

Follow Dave Ransey, Baby steps .....

#1, $1000.00 savings .....

#2, pay off ALL Credit cards.....

#3, save 6 months EMERGENCY fund, NOT to BE touched, except, in case of EMERGENCY .....

#4, pay off all debts, except house .....

#5, pay cash for EVERYTHING, from then on ..... if you do NOT have CASH, you don't need it !!!!!

Is that really what Ramsey said? That's legit advice.

It's pretty close. Step 2 is pay off all debt but the house using all but 1000 dollars in savings. 4 is to invest 15% for retirement. 5, 6, and 7 are related to kids' college savings and paying off the house. From Ramsey's website:

• Step 1: Save $1,000
• Step 2: Pay Off Debt
• Step 3: 3-6 Month Fund
• Step 4: Invest 15%
• Step 5: College
• Step 6: Pay Off Home
• Step 7: Give

 

[Enkrypter]

Silver and gold will only be valuable to someone who still thinks there will be a monetary system. Those of you savign silver and gold for barter, will likely have a better chance of using to bribe someone to let your family through a checkpoint or keep the local thugs out of your house for a few weeks. For everything else there's Smith and Wesson.

 

[Jackson]

Looking at some of the money I spend each week. Maybe $20.00 on disposable income things like eating lunch out once in a while etc.

Well I started thinking what if I invested that money in Silver Copper etc. Even if the shnhtf I would perhaps be doing better than a bank savings account. Problem is I have no idea where to start. Any one have any experience or suggestions?


Thanks

Check mark for all of the above.

We have one credit card small purchase ($10.00) every month paid off the following day. We have a sufficient supply of food water etc. As well as chickens ducks etc and bacon seeds and a calf.


We have arms and ammo. So what I was really wanting to know was if anyone augmented their preps with some precious metals. Even things do not ever go. South I figured it couldn't hurt to buy some silver versus blowing money on lunch out etc. Guess I could be wrong.

We want to invest in our families security.

One 11 year old. We have taught him saftey and how to shoot. As well as cleaning a chicken. Lots of life lessons that doubled as quality father son time.

First, I want to say that if you have figured out how to grow bacon from seeds, you should patent that stuff. You'll never have to worry about money again.

It looks to me like the OP is not looking for investing advice, as much as he or she is looking specifically for advice on how to buy precious metals.

I'll get to gold in a minute, but I think the above notes about personal financial planning are important to consider. Even if they are just a reminder for the rest of us. I think it is much more likely that my kids (or a person's in my age range, since I have none) will make it to college, or that I'll grow old and need money for retirement than it is likely the world will collapse and I'll have to eat rats. So I manage my personal finances (including any gold purchases) with those probabilities in mind. Like several people have noted, I don't use debt instruments, I maintain a high savings rate, I fully utilize every tax-advantaged vehicle available to me, and I invest in the best-performing asset classes over the past 150 years or so (the stock market). This is generally what I would recommend to most people.

Several in this thread have mentioned using credit cards as a cash flow planning tool. I think that's a valid use of credit cards. I find it easier just to maintain enough cash and not worry about it. Rewards were also mentioned, but the extra couple hundred dollars I might yield in a given year isn't worth the hassle of keeping up with what reward goes with which purchase, etc. I don't use debt myself and I think, in general, most people would be better off without it. Net worth is the only financial metric I believe is worth tracking. Credit scores have no value to me. I control my expenses to the extent possible. I don't spend enough for rewards to be a big deal.

Moderating spending also helps with my savings rate. For people attempting to build wealth with a regular working income, savings rate is the biggest factor. (This study of retirement savings demonstrated that "...on a relative basis, we found the savings rate to be approximately five times more important to achieving retirement success than asset allocation, approximately 30 times more important than actuarial assessment & intervention, and approximately 45 times more important than asset quality." In this case, "retirement success" can be extrapolated to building wealth since the definition of success includes having enough assets to replace income in retirement. 20% overall savings rate is the minimum I would ever consider acceptable. I try for 40% of gross (but usually fall somewhere in to the mid-high 30's). The majority of it goes in to 401Ks, IRAs, HSAs, and other tax-advantaged places. When I invest outside of those plans I do it in as tax-efficient a way as possible. Holding physical gold can have significant tax inefficiencies.

As far as investing, I like to look at all of my assets and investments as a whole. I think it's worthwhile for everyone who does investing to develop a personal Investment Policy Statement or an Investment Plan. Any gold (physical or otherwise) would be part of that overall plan, and part of an overall asset allocation. It should take in to account specific investing goals, tax implications, accounts, storage and security issues (physical security of physical gold or market risk of gold funds). It may also be worthwhile to create a similar type of statement for one's SHTF preparations, and in it develop a risk assessment for various types of risks and how they are addressed by each element of your preparations. There are many disastrous events that can happen to a person that don't include the total breakdown of society. Home fires, identity theft, burglary, serious illness or injury requiring ongoing and expensive medical care. All of these are mitigated at least somewhat by having good savings and adequate insurance coverage. They happen to people every day, and when looked at in aggregate, are (I assume) much more likely than having to use that 30-year supply of freeze-dried vegetables in my basement. So I would want to make sure those things are adequately addressed in my personal risk assessment plan before I started allocating resources (time, energy, money) to the end of the world.

Assuming, as the OP stated above, that all of that was adequately addressed and in place, and I still desired physical gold, I would look to understand exactly which situations having gold would alleviate. I don't think gold would be useful in a complete apocalyptic breakdown of society. However, I also don't think that kind of scenario is likely. I think it's more likely we could face long-term economic hardship along the lines of Argentina or Greece. So is there any evidence that gold would be useful in those environments? I think so. I would look at a couple blog posts and articles from the guy known as Ferfal. Unless he's making it all up, he was present during the Argentinian economic collapse and has written a couple posts about the use of gold during that time. Here's one more. And here's another.

So I think gold can have value, but it's pretty far down my list of things to consider from a risk mitigation standpoint. From a savings and investment standpoint, I would max out all of my other options and have considerable assets before I felt adding gold to my allocation would be of benefit. I would also have to closely consider the tax implications. If I were buying gold, I would probably look for minted coins of known purity, with documentation to back up their value. I wouldn't worry about collector value as much as weight, purity, and verifiable authenticity. I might also keep some junk gold around for quick trades and quick cash. This is all theoretical, as I don't personally maintain any physical gold. This is just what I would do.

 

[bwframe]

I'd invest in training and building of skills. With skills, there is no gambling of your investment being of value post SHTF. On top of the value pre-SHTF.

Can you run your self defense tools better than average?
Can you shoot week handed? Can you reload your sidearm one handed? Can you shoot effectively in the dark?
Can you substantiate all of the above and more with certifications and score sheets? (If we're male, we all THINK we can shoot, drive and screw, but...)

Do you have the medical skills to save your family, buddy, self in the event of a traumatic injury?
Can you hunt and grow your own food?
Are you truly effective running a hammer, axe, fillet knife?
Can you make and reload your own bullets? Do you have the components and tools on hand to do it?
Etc, etc, etc...

 

[wcd]

Bacon seeds....pigs we have young ones that will be bacon as well as hams etc in the spring.