Is .22 that bad for home defense?

[LionsFan1911Man]

Ditch the .22

The .22 has many great uses, but home defense is not one of them. If the worst case scenario happens and your BG fires back, he will most likely not be firing a .22! You need a 9mm or .38 special at least. You could find a charter arms .357 mag that will give you five shots of man-stopping power and the ability to fire .38 special rounds. This gun or any like it will not fail and your attacker will not be nearly as likely to be firing back! The Charter Arms .357 Mag Pug is a perfect exmple and a used one can be found in your price range. Oh, one more thing- If you find a new fuul-size 9mm for $250- don't buy it! It has to be junk. Hi-Point is junk! Good luck and hope you find a good one

 

[bwframe]

I am a new homeowner and just recently got my gun permit. I am looking for a firearm to protect my home and my family (since my dog would likely attempt to lick a robber to death). Price is a concern but I won't sacrifice reliability to get a larger caliber handgun. There are quite a few .22 handguns in my $250 price range but almost every forum I have read says that .22 is too small to stop someone breaking into my home. Is there that much difference in effectiveness between .22 and 9mm for example. Any constructive feedback is appreciated.

It would be irresponsible to plan to protect your family with a .22LR.

...My recommendation is 9mm. And training-- lots of training.

^^^ This man has it right, but I would do it the other way around. I would train first, buy later. I would use the trainer's guns to determine which one was for me. The trainers will be more than happy to put you in gear to try out.

 

[TopDog]

Hello yuwaix,

There have been a lot of really good comments on this thread. Unfortunately, the few atrocious ones come across as being so authoritative that I could no longer be a lurker. Ok, here's real life.

Three years ago, my 16 year old son fought off and killed a violent home invader (later learned there were a couple others, but they ran when their heavily armed amigo went down in a hail of lead). The home invader was armed with a 9mm pistol and a shank screwdriver. My son had a Ruger 10/22 rifle (.22 caliber) with a 25 round magazine.

The bad guy went down fast still clutching his pistol in his fist.

The 10/22 can quickly hurl a wall of lead that a woman or child can easily and accurately dispense.

Use 40 grain sold point ammo (never hollow) moving at least 1,200 feet per second to punch through ribs, sternum and cranium.

I keep two 10/22's around the house for the wife and children to use.

I'm ok with the 10/22 for myself as well, but I greatly prefer to use a 9mm carbine (short rifle). Yes, the 9mm is far more effective than a .22LR.

Also, a carbine is far more powerful than any pistol of the same caliber. The less experienced shooter more accurately and quickly acquires target with a carbine when under extreme stress than they do a pistol.

First your son sounds like quite a man, when he was forced to step up he did so admirably. I am sorry he went through that but I am sure you are very proud of him. I know you are grateful for how things worked out.

If this going to be a debate about rifle vs handgun, there is no debate. A rifle is more capable than a handgun. If I am going to have a chance to choose what to use during a confrontation within a building, I am picking one of my 12ga shotguns.

There are many pros and cons to consider. Availability, convenience, deploy-ability, dependability and the list goes on. But when it comes to caliber, not platform, I will choose the largest caliber I can most proficiently shoot, other considerations not withstanding. Although the .22 caliber rifle can do a lot there is a reason you dont hunt much game above a squirrel or a rabbit with a .22 If you had a choice would you try to take a 12 point buck with a .22 or something larger? There is an old saying remember the four B's. Big Bores Bust Better

Just my opinion, you got it for free so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Never A Victim]

I beg to differ.
Revolvers are more reliable.
But, most semi-autos problems can be cleared on the spot.
When a revolver jams, its down for the count.
Primers pushed back
Timing off
Hilliry Lock self engages.

And I'm sure there's more.

This is very true. The biggest problem with revolvers is the fact that they are hard to shoot and don't hold enough bullets.

Now before someone says "I can shoot my revolver better than you can shoot a glock" this might be true. But you will have put much more time into your training to get to the same level you could have gotten to with a semi auto in the same amount of time.

I would agree that a .22 is not ideal for home defense. I'd look at hi point or Kel tec. I'm not sure what your financial situation is, and I dont mean to be rude, but its all about priorities. If you absolutely can't save up more than 250.00 then by all means buy a semi auto handgun for 250.00. If you can sell some stuff, stop going out to eat for a few weeks, take your lunch to work, etc. you can get another few hundred saved up. I know a lot of people who think buying thier first gun doesnt need to be expensive because they've never owned a gun. They don't want to buy something expensive and realize that gun ownership is not for them. So they buy a cheap gun instead of spending more for a quality firearm.

 

[CoastieGM]

I know you are grateful for how things worked out.

Boy, that's an understatement...

If this going to be a debate about rifle vs handgun, there is no debate. A rifle is more capable than a handgun.

So many people just assume that a pistol is what they should have for home defense. I think it's always healthy to challenge that assumption and see if it really is the best option for them in their situation. For instance, entry teams don't use pistols for primary weapon deployment.

But when it comes to caliber, not platform, I will choose the largest caliber I can most proficiently shoot

That's exactly my point...you just spelled it out more concisely than I did.

I use a 9mm carbine because I'm very proficient and experienced with it. I keep the 10/22's around as the "women and children's gun" because it's what they can shoot most proficiently.

The OP sounded less experienced, so I would recommend he start out smaller and work his way up.

Although the .22 caliber rifle can do a lot there is a reason you dont hunt much game above a squirrel or a rabbit with a .22

Actually, I drop at least 2 coyotes a week with a .22 (I'm down in Texas these days). They're tough and not all that small, and a .22LR drops them them quick. See one at left below in my driveway cam:

I also get the occasional feral hog with a chest size comparable to a human.

There is an old saying remember the four B's. Big Bores Bust Better

Totally agree, but Small Hits Beat Big Misses. My son's shooting is a perfect example....22LR prevailed over a 9mm. The boy was proficient with his "inferior caliber" (compensated by volume of bullets), and the adult bad guy wasn't proficient with his "superior caliber". Result: bad guy died...quickly.

The shooter has to be able to hit the target. My consistent experience is that most dead guys usually had more weapon than they could really handle, so they missed.

Just my opinion, you got it for free so take it for what it's worth.

No, far more than that...a very healthy discussion for all.

 

[cosermann]

As I've said, the .22lr out of a rifle (i.e. 10/22, etc) is a completely different animal than a .22lr out of a pistol.

Brassfetcher equates the .22lr out of a rifle to roughly equivalent to a 45 acp ("high KE expanding ammo"). Not sure how he came up with that/not sure I agree with it, BUT it does serve to illustrate the significant difference barrel length makes with this cartridge. You STILL need to carefully select your ammunition. Some .22lr, even out of a rifle will NOT penetrate adequately. Some will. This is often the case with calibers that are sort of on the edge with respect to effectiveness for your intended use. FWIW.

22LR

However, if you can shoot and afford something larger, you should go with something larger.

 

[patience0830]

No, far more than that...a very healthy discussion for all.

Welcome to the forum Coastie. An attitude like this is just what we need more of around here.

Alamo is a former Hoosier now in TX as well. And a good guy to boot.

Glad you chose to participate.

 

[repeter1977]

Shot placement is one of the main things. If you can only afford a 22, and can get really good on it, it CAN work for self defense. As many have already posted, its not ideal. However, it is better then nothing, and I have read many stories about people being killed with the round. They are inexpensive and able to kill, but they are not the best. Not every handgun caliber will be tolerated when you try to shoot it, as in, the recoil might be too hard to control. As with the pitbull example, if you shoot the 44 magnum and miss, and it kicks out of your hand, or kicks and brains you, then you are way behind on the fight, where you can unload 10 rounds of 22 in a second into the dog. Make good shot placement, and know they are not the most immediate man stoppers.

 

[CoastieGM]

Brassfetcher equates the .22lr out of a rifle to roughly equivalent to a 45 acp ("high KE expanding ammo"). Not sure how he came up with that/not sure I agree with it, BUT it does serve to illustrate the significant difference barrel length makes with this cartridge.

Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that comment...hard to get my brain around that. But the homicide detectives I've dealt with have told me that indoor shootings with a .22 rifle (assuming using solid point ammo to the chest cavity) normally results in someone dead pretty darn quick.

You STILL need to carefully select your ammunition. Some .22lr, even out of a rifle will NOT penetrate adequately. Some will.

So true. My experimentation came with deer carcases. A few times after kiling deer on my property, I broke out a .22 rifle and pumped a few rounds into Bambi's parents with various ammo. Results were very interesting. 40 grain solid point ammo pushing at least 1,200 fps did the best by far...actually quite consistent under 10 yards (typical indoor scenario). "Hypervelocity" rounds under 40 grains failed to consistently penetrate, and hollowpoints were totally useless. (Really wish I could have filmed all that, but that was before the days of YouTube ).

This is often the case with calibers that are sort of on the edge with respect to effectiveness for your intended use. FWIW.

Very true. It's all about trade-off to fit the individual situation.

 

[prfctcrcl9]

More of the same, .22 is not really great for home defense. No stopping power at all. For handguns in your price range i'd go kel tec 9mm or .38. Regardless what you go with you should spend A LOT of time shooting the gun you buy and getting familiar with it. If you put it in your drawer right out of the box and are an inexperienced shooter, you will find yourself in a dangerous predicament if you wake up in one night and actually need to use the weapon.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A .22 is close to my last choice for self defense, perhaps above .25ACP. Can it kill? Sure, so can a sharp stick. Does shot placement trump caliber? To an extent, yes, but even head shots don't always kill and extremity hits aren't always survived. I've seen it. Besides that, counting on head shots in a dynamic environment with a ton of adrenaline coursing through your body is probably wishful thinking on most shooters' part.

Get a 12g pump, load it with buck shot, and you've got the most reliable, effective, and easy to learn to handle weapon anywhere close to your price range.

 

[jtmason15]

I would agree with esrice. .22 is a fun little round and it can kill if it needs to but since it is rimfire ammunition it is not near as reliable as having an actual handgun caliber with a primer. I would save a little bit more and get a Smith and Wesson SW9VE. They are not the best guns, or most accurate guns, but they do work. And a 9MM can be pretty potent if you get the correct rounds for it. But if for some reason you cannot afford to spend anymore than go with the .22. Something is always better than nothing. I don't want to get hit by any of them. At least your family would be protected.

 

[karatejoe]

A .22 is lethal. It will not dump enough energy for a reliable stop. That's the physics. However, it IS better than nothing and I would not want to face 25 rounds of .22lr from a 10-22 at close range.

so true. I have lots of guns. I tell my wife the 22LR is her best bet if Im gone. Take 10 rounds from that and see if you stop.

 

[karatejoe]

You can get 00 buckshot loads with reduced recoil for the 12 gauge.
Also you're not going to shoot many times with a shotgun (unless you have multiple attackers) so recoil shouldn't be an issue even for the ladies.

Not that ladies cant handle the recoil with proper stance anyway.

I was just telling my wife last night. I was discussing her gun options when Im gone. I said "this is the 12 gauge. It hurts to shoot it. But you need only shoot it once to stop an intruder maybe 2 at once.
for some reason she shyed away from the AR15. probably the stigma that they carry.

 

[CoastieGM]

so true...I tell my wife the 22LR is her best bet if Im gone. Take 10 rounds from that and see if you stop.

Dang right. Here's the work of a 10/22 on a hopped-up home invader. (home invader was armed with German Luger and shank screwdriver).

Chest shots from a 10/22 tore him up and dropped the sucker dead. That's his lung on the deck. Required a flat-nose shovel lift that thick crap up.

His name WAS Jose Castillo from south of the border. Kicked in the door of the wrong house.

 

[democracywins]

Watch Mythbusters! 22 will do the zombie kill shot to the head! It's on like donkey kong!

 

[pwoller]

Pump 12 gauge with T shot. At close range that willl put about anyone on the floor fast!

 

[Broom_jm]

Hello yuwaix,

There have been a lot of really good comments on this thread. Unfortunately, the few atrocious ones come across as being so authoritative that I could no longer be a lurker. Ok, here's real life.

Three years ago, my 16 year old son fought off and killed a violent home invader (later learned there were a couple others, but they ran when their heavily armed amigo went down in a hail of lead). The home invader was armed with a 9mm pistol and a shank screwdriver. My son had a Ruger 10/22 rifle (.22 caliber) with a 25 round magazine.

The bad guy went down fast still clutching his pistol in his fist.

The 10/22 can quickly hurl a wall of lead that a woman or child can easily and accurately dispense.

Use 40 grain sold point ammo (never hollow) moving at least 1,200 feet per second to punch through ribs, sternum and cranium.

I keep two 10/22's around the house for the wife and children to use.

I'm ok with the 10/22 for myself as well, but I greatly prefer to use a 9mm carbine (short rifle). Yes, the 9mm is far more effective than a .22LR.

Also, a carbine is far more powerful than any pistol of the same caliber. The less experienced shooter more accurately and quickly acquires target with a carbine when under extreme stress than they do a pistol.

My 18 year-old son has a 9mm carbine that was bought for him as a Christmas gift. It was not purchased for self-defense, per se, but has proven to be a 100% reliable and remarkably accurate little gun. It has multiple rails for tacti-cool add-ons, wears an Aimpoint red dot scope and will ring a 6" steel at 100 yards. At that range, it STILL has more energy than a 22 pistol has, at the muzzle! It's short enough to maneuver in tight quarters and has either 10 or 15 round capacity. Brand new, it went for under $300 and you can buy them used for $250 all day long. It looks something like this.

For those who have noted that Hi-point pistols are not of the best quality; their carbines are a totally different animal. We've got over 2,000 rounds through my son's and it's hasn't so much as hiccuped.

With all of that being said, there is a 12 gauge Mossberg within easy reach, should an intruder ever kick in my door. I'm sure a BG would not want to hear the crack of a 22 going off as he attempted to rob a home, but the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber of a pump shotgun is enough to make cowardly men pee themselves. If there is a better way to clear a hallway than 1 or 2 rounds from a 12 gauge, I'm just not acquainted with it.

I've got three different 22 handguns, and they have their purpose, but HOME defense would be only as a last resort.

 

[SLIM86]

You can get a reliable 9mm for about $300 load it with some hollow points and you'll be good to go, you can also get a. 38 special for about the same price. I also agree a .22lr is better then nothing I remember reading a book where a Navy SEAL took down a VC with 10 shots from his survival pistol so they can be leathal

 

[SLIM86]

One think about .22lr is it will penetrate and bounce around and cause more damage