Is 223 big enough?

[warhawk77]

I know I can't hunt with the 223 round here.

Is the 223 round big enough to drop a deer? How about something bigger like elk? Guessing bear might be pushing it. I'm not talking about the rare shot just every day shots. You hit a deer in the chest with a 30-06 he is not going far.

Same question on 556?


The reason for asking is I'm wondering do I need a big hunting rifle in a shtf survival situation, or is a AR 15 able to do the job.

 

[shibumiseeker]

People kill deer all the time with .223. Distance, ammo selection, and shot placement are necessary, but a clean kill is very possible.

Elk would be possible SHTF, but a clean kill is going to be MUCH harder and the .223 is a poor choice there.

 

[42769vette]

possible, yes

legal, no

good idea, no

im not one of those people who think you need a 338 ultra mag to take a elk but i do think you need a 24 cal for deer, and 27 cal for elk

 

[Leo]

Get a 30-06 for bigger game. I would consider 300 Winchester magnum for dangerous North American Game. I have been chased by wild hogs twice. There is no feeling like when you suddenly realize you don't have strong enough weapons. I know that professional hunters score big game with weaker cartridges, but their skill level, experience and opportunities are far superior to mine.

I know a guy that goes Bear hunting with primative archery equipment, pretty brave guy. He admits his hunting buddy backs him up with a 300 Winchester.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

There are indeed states where the .223 / 5.56 out of a rifle are perfectly legal to hunt deer with. And it's used with great success.

Plus, in a true SHTF situation, you can use mild .223 loads to take much smaller game as well.

If I wanted a true 1-caliber that can do just about anything in North America just by tweaking the load... I'd probably look at .30-06 or .270.

-J-

 

[warhawk77]

Thanks for the info everyone. I think i will keep the idea of getting my AR and after that start looking for a big rifle. Might get a mosin 91/30 just because the price.

Not a lot of big game in this area away.

 

[sbcman]

I know that professional hunters score big game with weaker cartridges, but their skill level, experience and opportunities are far superior to mine.

This. Inuit subsistence hunters regularly take game, up to and including, polar bear with 223. The caliber is plenty, its the skill with the guy on the trigger that matters.

 

[tyrajam]

If you take "bow shots" with a HUNTING bullet, it will do great. I grew up in oregon and .22 centerfire was the minumum for deer and black bear, .24 for elk. If you only shoot at an animal that is broadside and stay off the shoulder, it will zip through the lungs and kill anything in North America. I have 62gr barnes x bullets that I load in my 223's. Will jill anything. My dads buddy shot a black bear through the ear with a 22 and dropped it in its tracks. Heck, most of the deer I ate growing up were shot with a 22 rimfire. Not ideal, not legal, but that was a long time ago. If you can shoot a 223 accurately and be patient, you're set.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I know I can't hunt with the 223 round here.

Is the 223 round big enough to drop a deer? How about something bigger like elk? Guessing bear might be pushing it. I'm not talking about the rare shot just every day shots. You hit a deer in the chest with a 30-06 he is not going far.

Same question on 556?


The reason for asking is I'm wondering do I need a big hunting rifle in a shtf survival situation, or is a AR 15 able to do the job.

Why not get both, AR 15 and a hunting gun/rifle?

Hunting guns/rifles are relatively cheap. Especially if you stick to shotguns and single shot/muzzle loading rifles.

 

[warhawk77]

Why not get both, AR 15 and a hunting gun/rifle?

Hunting guns/rifles are relatively cheap. Especially if you stick to shotguns and single shot/muzzle loading rifles.

I might get both in the long run. I don't like the idea of hunting with shotguns it just not something I grew up with. But a nice single shot rossi can be gotten for about $350-400 so not real bad and to me that is not cheap.

I have a 12ga right now but is has a 18.5 barrel so not really set up for long shots. But just had a thought maybe get a 20 ga to shoot slugs and use that as a back up hunting rifle.

 

[ATOMonkey]

What kind of shot gun do you have? The 12 ga. is one of the most versitile weapons on the planet.

 

[teddy12b]

One thing to keep in mind with your SHTF scenario is that you're not hunting for the sport where a clean single shot is preferred. If you're hunting with an AR POST SHTF I'm going to assume you're going to have a 20 or 30 round mag in that gun, so by all means shoot shoot shoot until it drops. If I had to feed my family with an AR, theres no way I'd let a deer walk so long as I had more ammo in the gun. Don't get me wrong, make your first shot count, just don't be shy about trying about as many follow up shots as it takes. Broken bones don't run well.

 

[warhawk77]

One thing to keep in mind with your SHTF scenario is that you're not hunting for the sport where a clean single shot is preferred. If you're hunting with an AR POST SHTF I'm going to assume you're going to have a 20 or 30 round mag in that gun, so by all means shoot shoot shoot until it drops. If I had to feed my family with an AR, theres no way I'd let a deer walk so long as I had more ammo in the gun. Don't get me wrong, make your first shot count, just don't be shy about trying about as many follow up shots as it takes. Broken bones don't run well.

I agree after the SHTF I don't care about what the hunting law says or if I have to empty the mag.


I have a 12ga pump. Quick look a Ganders web site I can get a 20ga single shot for $160 or pump for $230 that doesn't sound to bad.

If I remember right a 12ga is about the size of a 70 cal. A 410 is just bigger then 40 cal so a 20ga should be about 45-50 cal size right? Slug sizes any way

 

[shibumiseeker]

One thing to keep in mind with your SHTF scenario is that you're not hunting for the sport where a clean single shot is preferred. If you're hunting with an AR POST SHTF I'm going to assume you're going to have a 20 or 30 round mag in that gun, so by all means shoot shoot shoot until it drops. If I had to feed my family with an AR, theres no way I'd let a deer walk so long as I had more ammo in the gun. Don't get me wrong, make your first shot count, just don't be shy about trying about as many follow up shots as it takes. Broken bones don't run well.

Actually SHTF is the best time to practice "one shot, one kill." Multiple shots and having to track game any distance is the best way to advertise your presence and allow people to get a fix on direction.

If you want true TEOTWAWKI hunting, you want a suppressed weapon you know how to use.

 

[ATOMonkey]

If you have a pump gun, I'm assuming it's either a mossberg 500 or a remington 870. Both of which will allow you to swap out for an additional 2 types of barrels.

Your 18.5" barrel can be supplemented with a 24" smooth barrel or a 23-24" rifled barrel.

Out of that rifled barrel you can fire sabot rounds, which is a bullet inside of a plastic case. When you fire, the bullet and case travel together out of the barrel. Upon leaving the barrel, the plastic sabot will fall away and the round will continue on, just like a rifle.

Hornady SST sabots travel in excess of 2,000 FPS, depending on the weather and length of the barrel. Inside that sabot is a 300 gr FTX bullet. That combo is good to at least 100 yards, and on a good day 200 yards, and will make a mess out of whatever it hits.

Attach your 24" smooth barrel and turkey choke, load it with 3" turkey shells, and now you've got thanksgiving dinner.

Use a wider choke to hunt pheasants, rabbits, squirrels, ground hogs, etc.

You can even shoot bernneke or foster slugs out of your smooth bore barrel up to 50 yards with devastating results on thinner skinned (less fat) game like deer and elk.

 

[Zoub]

AR's and all battle rifles are hunting rifles. Designed to be carried all day hunting people and work when you need it. Only issue is how much weight you want to carry all day and distance you need to kill at. I love deer hunting with a light weight AR pencil barrel .556 upper. On the other end of the spectrum, my heaviest .556 upper is also for hunting and is always scoped. Both are 16", all you really need.

SHTF you will likely need defense more than a hunting gun, in short order there will be no game left to hunt but plenty of people.

If money is a huge issue, just get a B-square saddle mount for your existing 870. Put an inexpensive red dot on the Bsquare mount. Barrel length is a non issue, your range is 70 yards, 100 max and the Bsquare mount returns to zero when you put it back on.

Next is either get a rifled barrel for your 12 gauge, scoped and used with sabots it is a poormans 50 cal. 200 yard gun and kills big game inside that range. Or for roughly the same money, buy a used 870 so you have two guns of the same gauge. This is a good time of year to find used 1970's vintage Remington sluggers. They come with rifled sights and will double as another HD gun. It is my favorite base shotgun for any shotgun project. You don't need a 3" chamber either.

Two shotguns or one AR are about equivalent in cost and overall uses.

 

[warhawk77]

Thanks for the tips.

Sorry I thought I listed it but guess not. I have a mossberg 500 12ga

I looked at Dick sporting goods at lunch they have rifle barrels for my mossberg for $189. For about a $100 more I can get a new gun with two barrels. That is a better option in my mind as it gives me another gun.

I think I need to get some slugs and put some practice shots down range.

This is why I love this sight. I was asking if I could hunt with one weapon and you guys show me how to hunt with tools I already own in a diff way.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Thanks for the tips.

Sorry I thought I listed it but guess not. I have a mossberg 500 12ga

I looked at Dick sporting goods at lunch they have rifle barrels for my mossberg for $189. For about a $100 more I can get a new gun with two barrels. That is a better option in my mind as it gives me another gun.

I think I need to get some slugs and put some practice shots down range.

This is why I love this sight. I was asking if I could hunt with one weapon and you guys show me how to hunt with tools I already own in a diff way.

Look in the classifieds as people will sell their slug barrels there for $100- $50.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ossberg_500_slugster_barrel_12_ga_40_a-3.html

I would not buy a barrel from the store. Just keep your eye out here, and one will pop up.

Patience is a virtue.

Since a barrel is just a part and doesn't need an FFL, you could also buy them over the web and have it shipped straight to your house.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Just found this out!

You can buy a 24" muzzle loading barrel for your 500A as well. That's pretty cool.

Cheaper than dirt $115 out the "door."

 

[M4Madness]

SHTF you will likely need defense more than a hunting gun, in short order there will be no game left to hunt but plenty of people.

Exactly. All over the internet, you see guys who say that they'll live off the land after a major SHTF event. Truth be told, after a couple of months of people starving, there won't be anything as small as a squirrel left alive, much less a deer. Deer were wiped out in Indiana by the 20th century, and there are a heck of a lot more people living here now than then.