Is it a citizen's duty to know their rights, or should they be informed by police?

[Keyser Soze]

First of all I'll buy you dinner at Morton's in Indy if you're really an LEO. Troll of the bridge doesn't count. Neither does claiming to have spent the night at a Holiday Inn Express. That aside.
.

Pm inbound...I hope your a man of your word. If you are be prepared I eat like a horse.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Pm inbound...I hope your a man of your word. If you are be prepared I eat like a horse.

He is.

 

[LPMan59]

. Its not the rest of the worlds fault you have a small penis and were bullied your whole life, so now you hide behind a badge to do to others what was done to you.

why didnt anyone tell me i was meant to be a cop?

 

[Keyser Soze]

well one generalization I will make is all you (95%) INGO cops are the same, and require people to ***** foot around on making a comment about cops. so let me clarify so you dont cry.

EVERY cop that I personally have ever known as a friend, or am related too (includes a deputy chief), didnt know as much as I would have hoped when it comes to the laws. seems as if as long as you got the traffic violations, domestic cases, drug laws, pedophile ****, covered that you will rise to the top.
As much as you cops talk about getting shot at and being a target every damn shift , one would think you would get to know a little about gun laws involving legal gun owners. The only reason I can think of why you wouldnt claim to know the gun laws is so you could claim ignorance later when your in court defending yourself against violating someones rights. but us citizens are held to a higher standard of "ignorance of the law is no excuse"

and as far as the generalization you claim I made earlier ...... I bet those numbers wouldn't be hard to prove for the majority of cops not knowing the law like they should.

If I was a cop, it would truly bother me knowing or not knowing if I violated or was violating someones rights. no matter how ghetto, or redneck, rich or poor they were. I know some police still give a **** about doing things the right way and I support them and would give my life to back them up. for the rest of the cops that enjoy ****ing with people or pushing things over the legal limit, I hope they burn in a fire. Its not the rest of the worlds fault you have a small penis and were bullied your whole life, so now you hide behind a badge to do to others what was done to you. thats nothe kind of cops we need, and Im sad to say I have known and worked with a lot of cops just like that who wanted to come into my professional playground and sucked at that too, and endangered peoples lives. So when I talk about my opinions on what a lot of cops do, its based on my personal first hand knowledge of cops I know or have met. believe me, I wish I would have never met some of the deusch bag cops I have through my past work. If it was up to me they would have been hog tied and dropped off in the desert.

I see and understand your perspective. Its not that I am not aware there are #@$%y leos out there. I get the impression that many people here believe that MOST police officers are power hungry overweight middle aged men that were bullied in highschool. Or 21 year olds that want to kick in everyone's door and bounce heads off the hood of their squad car. Based on my personal experience I know that this is not the case.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to say a little abuse of power is ok as long as the majority are alright. 1 corrupt leo is 1 to many but the whole group as a whole should not be discredited.

 

[marine4life]

Can I ask, if you decide to get into a debate about ones civil rights on a traffic stop. Will that or will that not inferiate an officer, and more likely to invite a little more harassment of the tetained citizen? Just curious, I want to know from the LEO's that are on the page.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I see and understand your perspective. Its not that I am not aware there are #@$%y leos out there. I get the impression that many people here believe that MOST police officers are power hungry overweight middle aged men that were bullied in highschool. Or 21 year olds that want to kick in everyone's door and bounce heads off the hood of their squad car. Based on my personal experience I know that this is not the case.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to say a little abuse of power is ok as long as the majority are alright. 1 corrupt leo is 1 to many but the whole group as a whole should not be discredited.

THANK YOU!!!!! But to me it does discredit the rest of LEO's, at least at first till you prove yourself. I would love to have the eyes of a child again and to see a policeman's badge and believe he was the "good guy"!!! but with all the abuses I dont think that anymore when I see a badge or a car. And im also not teaching my child to believe that either for fear it may cause her harm in the future. The real victims here besides the citizens, are the good cops. and believe me there are many of you who think your one of the good guys, but your not. I dont know about you Keyser, but I hope your a real good cop.

If its any consolation, i use too think all politicians were good. boy was I wrong. but growing up related to a U.S. Senator will blind you a bit

 

[Keyser Soze]

Can I ask, if you decide to get into a debate about ones civil rights on a traffic stop. Will that or will that not inferiate an officer, and more likely to invite a little more harassment of the tetained citizen? Just curious, I want to know from the LEhttps://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1598228O's that are on the page.

Not to be a meanie but I would never decide to debate anyone on a traffic stop. Id answer some very basic questions if I knew the answers as quickly as possible but its really easy to start going back and forth. I try to keep an average of 7 minutes or less. Traffic stops are very dangerous. Your just as likely to get ran over by another car as your are to be shot. So I try to be as quick as possible.


That being said as long as you are not screaming or making threats you can say whatever you want.

You will probably get this YouTube - Crazy motorist goes nuts at a very cool traffic cop - police man & insane driver

You may get this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioHCL7uKYs

 

[PatriotPride]

When you assume....ah never mind. Ive never experienced that. Or done that. OR witnessed any of my fellow officers do so. So out of the 20,000 I find it hard to believe that most have experienced what you are describing. We could make another poll in the political form may be a little bias.

But ill humor you a little bit. Lets say this really were the case. Who's fault would it be intimately. So the stop is completed right? . Your stuff is handed back to you. Couldn't you just throw them deuces up and leave? Avoid being harassed.

Wow. There is literally nothing I can say that won't insult your intelligence or honesty and earn me yet another infraction. Well done.

ETA: I'll concede that this sounds a bit harsher than it may need to be, but my point still stands. I can't determine if you're an officer who is playing stupid about the issue at hand or who is truly being honest when you claim to have NEVER seen nor experienced what I described. It has happened on EVERY traffic stop that I have been subjected to. That being said, this post was not intended to offend.

 

[marine4life]

Ok, I'm laughing my ass off at both. First officer is more than patient and calm. But WTF with the second guy. Was the giving the guy the double "bird" a threat or what. I could hear what was being said when he left vehicle. I'm assuming it was'nt very pleasant..

 

[Keyser Soze]

Ok, I'm laughing my ass off at both. First officer is more than patient and calm. But WTF with the second guy. Was the giving the guy the double "bird" a threat or what. I could hear what was being said when he left vehicle. I'm assuming it was'nt very pleasant..

The second one just got settled in court. I cant verify but I heard about a year ago the first officer lost his job for possession of marijuana.

 

[marine4life]

well the first officer must have just smoked a "fattie", cause he was way to passive.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Wow. There is literally nothing I can say that won't insult your intelligence or honesty and earn me yet another infraction. Well done.

ETA: I'll concede that this sounds a bit harsher than it may need to be, but my point still stands. I can't determine if you're an officer who is playing stupid about the issue at hand or who is truly being honest when you claim to have NEVER seen nor experienced what I described. It has happened on EVERY traffic stop that I have been subjected to. That being said, this post was not intended to offend.

I have thick skin and it does not sound harsh at all. Just don't threaten me and we are good. I'll restate after someone has denied a consensual search I have never seen another officer harass or begin to interrogate the person. Anything that would turn up from such a search would be suppressed in court. It is feasible for an officer to get away with something like this without audio video. Once you lie on a PC affidavit you are incredible. Your career is over. Even if your felt comfortable doing so imo to any reasonable person it should not be worth the risk.

That being said I am sure what you described has happened thousands of times. I know for a fact that this is not how the majority of traffic stops happen. I find it unbelievable that what you described is the case for the majority of IGO members.

Anyways other officers know how I feel, even if I did work with a corrupt officer he certainly would not do something borderline in my presence. I hope this helps you understand how I have been working for just under 5 years and have never witnessed the behavior discussed.

Note:
SemperFiUSMC is hopefully taking me out to Mortons this weekend as long as a verify I am a leo. I am sure he will call my boss and tell him all sorts of stuff but he is a member on here to.........so I am covered.

 

[Keyser Soze]

First of all I'll buy you dinner at Morton's in Indy if you're really an LEO. Troll of the bridge doesn't count. Neither does claiming to have spent the night at a Holiday Inn Express. That aside.

Just what I figured. Still no reply to my pm.
YouTube - Obama "YOU LIE" mashup [PARODY VID]- DGM + "Jackass."

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

There is something odd about a government who routinely wants to shake down its citizens. I agree with what you are saying but would add that this idea is simply one last attempt at informing citizens of their rights -- it does not change what the rights are. Those of us who are informed will know the routine already. This idea is an extra roadblock against invasion of citizens' lives.

The line I envision is the entrance of Government into our personal space. When they are "requesting" to shake us down and invade our privacy, people should be aware that they can say "NO."

I can't really disagree with you, rambone. I think this is not a simple question you've asked. In another mood, I might have argued the other side of this one.

I DO agree that people should be aware that they have the right to say no. I'm just not so sure that having the police notify them of that is the right way to go about it. But then... I DO agree with Pirtle: "a person who is asked to give consent to search while in police custody is entitled to the presence and advice of counsel prior to making the decision whether to give such consent." So, I might agree with the argument that one who is NOT in police custody should have the same entitlement.

When SCOTUS found in 1973 in their Scheckloth decision that one did NOT have to be notified of their right to refuse a search, Justices Marshall & Brennan dissented, saying, essentially, "How can someone waive a right they do not know they have?" They had a good point, as do you!


Although I stand by everything I wrote in my first post, I'm probably on the fence about this now after reading some of the good arguments here and thinking about it more.


Thanks for a thought-provoking thread.

 

[rambone]

Although I stand by everything I wrote in my first post, I'm probably on the fence about this now after reading some of the good arguments here and thinking about it more.

Thanks for a thought-provoking thread.

Thanks for bringing an open-mind! I appreciate the input.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Thanks for bringing an open-mind! I appreciate the input.

I try to keep my mind open enough to let new ideas in, but no so open as to let my brains fall out