Is it responsible

[Itchytriggerfinger]

I do a lot of dangerous stuff that I never had paid training to do. I've never been in a car accident, never cut my arm off, never electrocuted myself, and I have two kids. Apparently I didn't need professional training.

 

[Coach]

I do a lot of dangerous stuff that I never had paid training to do. I've never been in a car accident, never cut my arm off, never electrocuted myself, and I have two kids. Apparently I didn't need professional training.

Practice is not training. Not talking about training here.

 

[chezuki]

I thought we were all in agreement that practice is cheating...

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

I thought we were all in agreement that practice is cheating...

I practiced daily in my teens. Sometimes 3-4 times a day.

 

[Bfish]

To answer Coach, I think it can be irresponsible.

I offer free training at the gun club I am on the board of, and get very few takers even though I know there are many there who carry with no training and /or practice. Of course in MI you have to take a class to get your CPL so you are good after that.

You in Michigan? I was wanting to take the Steve Fisher RDS class up there next month but can't... I will say though my brother in law had zero experience with shooting anything much less a pistol and he went through the Michigan class and I was honestly impressed with him when he came back and we went shooting. I don't know about all instructors but his was obviously squared away.

 

[NHT3]

Just to be clear the question was not about being trained, but practicing with the gun you carry.

People that don't understand the basics can't practice. Practicing bad habits or practicing without any training base to work from most likely will be counterproductive and could be dangerous. IMHO irresponsible is putting it mildly. Don't want to "jack" the thread but it gives me an idea for another thread..

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[cedartop]

To answer Coach, I think it can be irresponsible.



You in Michigan? I was wanting to take the Steve Fisher RDS class up there next month but can't... I will say though my brother in law had zero experience with shooting anything much less a pistol and he went through the Michigan class and I was honestly impressed with him when he came back and we went shooting. I don't know about all instructors but his was obviously squared away.

Yes in Michigan. Our CPL program is basically NRA basic pistol and personal protection inside the home. The skill of those who teach it vary widely. Some are literally horrible, some very good, most mediocre.

 

[bwframe]

 

[jt1975]

I agree you need to practice and train with what you carry to be responsible. You are responsible and liable for anything that comes out of that barrel in a bad situation.

 

[Brad69]

Imo you should set a timeframe for practice with your carry weapon for me it’s 90 days that means every 90 days I work on my personal “qualification”.
I due not prescribe to the single platform theory I carry a SW M&P 2.0 Compact for EDC and a SW Shield for lightweight carry/ BUG and work with both of them. In addition the 1911,M9 and DA revolvers are sidearms that I shoot on a regular basis and would feel confident using if needed.
The mindset for using a weapon requires that you practice with your choice of EDC if you are serious about it.
It would not IMO be responsible to carry a weapon you did not practice with on a regular basis it not a talisman you cannot will the weapon to stop a threat if you forget the thumb safety.

 

[CampingJosh]

I think everyone, no matter how much he has practiced, needs to be aware of his limitations.

I usually carry a micro .380. I practice with it pretty regularly, though probably not enough to call it "frequently."
Can I hit a stationary, human-sized target at 7 yards in under 3 seconds? Yes, 90%+ success rate on that.
Can I hit a moving human-sized target at 25 yards with a high rate of success? Probably not. Does that mean that I would refrain from intervening in a situation where I have to take a 25+ yard shot. If at all possible, yes.

 

[ATM]

It takes very little practice to responsibly carry a gun, but responsible deployment/use of that gun would be quite a different question.

 

[Denny347]

Is it responsible to carry a gun if you do not practice with that gun?

Yup, lots of people do it and if the time came to use it, it would be about as useful as a brick. But it sure does make them feel safer carrying it. False sense of security.
Now, if you practice/train with your Glock 23 and are proficient with it and decide to carry a brand new G27/26/19/17...etc but didn't shoot it yet, I'm not as concerned with that. But I've seen/heard it for myself, new gun owner buys a gun for "protection" and never practices/trains with it....ugh

 

[riverman67]

I think it's irresponsible but I think with a lot of individuals it's a case of they don't know what they don't know
. I work with a ton of folks like this, they ask me tons of questions about shooting and training opportunities,
I try to send them in the right direction, a rare few have followed up on the suggestions. Most of these folks have advanced degrees in engineering and business. They just don't get it.
I was in this group a few years ago, after some basic training classes it became evident that I had a lot to learn. Since that time I have gotten to as much training as the work schedule and budget would allow.
I practice and shoot matches regularly , it's still not enough I can get better.

In some cases it's ego driven
People , especially men, don't want to suck in front of others. This is the worst reason, in my opinion, to avoid training. The training and some practice will help with the suckitude and nobody else cares how you shoot. They only care about their performance.

 

[T.Lex]

Is it responsible to only practice enough to hit the X ring at 3 yards 1/10 times? Is dry fire practice sufficient?

My issue with the "practice/training is necessary to be a responsible gun carrier" is that it is elitist. The "carry is only for people with the resources to practice/train" is elitist.

SHOULD gun carriers do both? Sure. It is fun and rewarding.

SHOULD gun rights supporters accept that not everyone will do that? IMHO yes. And practice/training should be encouraged. (KF's long-argued position that such training should be tax deductible is brilliant.) But, saying or implying that the lack of such practice/training makes one irresponsible - while a fair opinion - is insulting to those who don't "have enough" practice/training.

 

[churchmouse]

Is it responsible to only practice enough to hit the X ring at 3 yards 1/10 times? Is dry fire practice sufficient?

My issue with the "practice/training is necessary to be a responsible gun carrier" is that it is elitist. The "carry is only for people with the resources to practice/train" is elitist.

SHOULD gun carriers do both? Sure. It is fun and rewarding.

SHOULD gun rights supporters accept that not everyone will do that? IMHO yes. And practice/training should be encouraged. (KF's long-argued position that such training should be tax deductible is brilliant.) But, saying or implying that the lack of such practice/training makes one irresponsible - while a fair opinion - is insulting to those who don't "have enough" practice/training.

I could really care less if I insult someone that wants to own/carry and refuses to become familiar and proficient with the gun. It is irresponsible. Period.
We all have our opinions on this. Well founded as we see the world. But just go stand at the range and watch. Then try and help those who really are lost and see what the reaction is.

 

[T.Lex]

I could really care less if I insult someone that wants to own/carry and refuses to become familiar and proficient with the gun. It is irresponsible. Period.

More or less responsible than not being able to defend oneself with a firearm at all?

We all have our opinions on this. Well founded as we see the world. But just go stand at the range and watch. Then try and help those who really are lost and see what the reaction is.

No thanks. I stopped trying to help (unless that's what I'm there to do for family/friends).

If they are at the range, are they not practicing? Isn't that the definition of "responsible" being proposed?

Or does are we really talking about proficiency?

 

[churchmouse]

More or less responsible than not being able to defend oneself with a firearm at all?



No thanks. I stopped trying to help (unless that's what I'm there to do for family/friends).

If they are at the range, are they not practicing? Isn't that the definition of "responsible" being proposed?

Or does are we really talking about proficiency?

Like Denny said........No better than a brick if you are not proficient with it. People hurt innocents or themselves far to often due to lack of proficiency. That is my point. It is not a Talisman.

Yes they are. But again, as has been mentioned, repeated.......ingraining bad habits.

Yes, becoming comfortable with our side arm of choice. Putting some effort into owning/carrying so as to not cause harm to innocents.

Just like we see on the roads. So many idiots with cars. When asked they are all great drivers.....

 

[T.Lex]

Like Denny said........No better than a brick if you are not proficient with it. People hurt innocents or themselves far to often due to lack of proficiency. That is my point. It is not a Talisman.

Well, I think there is a talismanic quality to mine, but that's probably for a different thread.

Yes they are. But again, as has been mentioned, repeated.......ingraining bad habits.

Yes, becoming comfortable with our side arm of choice. Putting some effort into owning/carrying so as to not cause harm to innocents.

This is a jump I'm not prepared to make.

Telling an abused woman that it is irresponsible for her to have/carry a firearm RIGHT NOW WHEN SHE NEEDS IT MOST until after she gets proficient with it obviates the natural right aspect of gun possession.

Operating a firearm (nowadays) isn't rocket science. You point the thing at the thing and pull the thing.

Again, my argument is not about the "should." People should want to be proficient in all sorts of things that they're not. Firemaking is another good one.

As a member of the gun culture who doesn't practice as often as I probably should, I do take exception to being labeled "irresponsible."

Just like we see on the roads. So many idiots with cars. When asked they are all great drivers.....

Same applies to other rights... like parenthood.

 

[churchmouse]

Well, I think there is a talismanic quality to mine, but that's probably for a different thread.


This is a jump I'm not prepared to make.

Telling an abused woman that it is irresponsible for her to have/carry a firearm RIGHT NOW WHEN SHE NEEDS IT MOST until after she gets proficient with it obviates the natural right aspect of gun possession.

Operating a firearm (nowadays) isn't rocket science. You point the thing at the thing and pull the thing.

Again, my argument is not about the "should." People should want to be proficient in all sorts of things that they're not. Firemaking is another good one.

As a member of the gun culture who doesn't practice as often as I probably should, I do take exception to being labeled "irresponsible."


Same applies to other rights... like parenthood.

But you do practice yes.....
I and you both know folks that own guns and have never ever shot them. Yet they are still gun owners just not being responsible about it. JMHO on this.

There are some exceptions but someone should show the abused woman which end the round comes out of.....you agree...???

And once again I am discussing with an "X" prosecutor....

I can make build a fire...just not as good as Rhino.....so I am not proficient........