Is Lugar too liberal

[ghostinthewood]

I find it amusing that you are calling John Galt out for having straw man arguments, when yours is just that. You began this threadjack with a straw man argument trying to somehow equate anyone who opposes Lugar with the tea party (which was not anywhere near the point that BillyT was making in his offhanded comment). You equate Lugar's positions to those of a person who "thinks for himself" which is not what a senator is supposed to do. The traditional role of a senator is to think for his state. Neither Lugar nor Bayh have done that in a very long time. Then you throw in a Red Herring and divert the issue from the topic that you sidetracked off on (from gaffes now on to violence).

I literally did not say anyone who disagreed with Lugar was part of the Tea Party. I don't even see where there was confusion...

Thinks for himself being relative to his job. I.E. people are tired of party loyalty, buying in to lobbyists, etc. I guess I'm going to have to be more explicit from now on....

I saw it was getting sidetracked which is why I didnt pick a part his post.

For someone who jumps on the John Stewart bandwagon of "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler" it seems a bit of a stretch to begin talking to people about bandwagons, straw men, and false arguments. Who was pilloried as Hitler and a Nazi for 8 years by the same people who are now trying to get everyone to chant the mantra "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler"? That would be Bush. And yes, Stewart was in on that bandwagon himself.

I don't get my news from the Daily Show, as you seem to be implying. lol Moreso, I can't remember when I last saw the Daily Show (or the Colbert Report if you resort to that). Can it be that i stumbled across some things in the vast reaches of the entrawebz? I think so. Thinking back, in my first post I even mentioned watching the past Senatorial debates. Since you're soooo eager to know these things, I'll tell you I even took my long-time gf on a date to watch the last one with me at VU.

You're also assuming I havn't stood up for Bush when I've also literally said nothing about him. I didn't agree with him on much...at all...but its stupid to call anyone a nazi other than Hitler. Sorry I'm not John Stewart? lol

I do appreciate that you have stated that you are a young guy and that you may not remember the last 10 years as well as some of us do. But before you go around making snarky, idiotic arguments claiming to be some kind of mock moderate, remember that there are plenty of people out here who actually are moderate people who have done research and don't make snap decisions on who or what to support based on what the comedy news tells them. Mmm, k? Alright. Have a great holiday week.

I'm old enough, or at least, involved enough to remember those years better than bitter old people who may or may not be senile. =p Ironic you're talking down on me for making snappy decisions but it seems your post is full of assumptions. Once again, I think its pretty obvious that from the length of my first post, to my second post. Or even most of my post to my second post in this thread, I saw the direction it was going and intended to let John Galt take a jab at me and let it be. Funny how you made a LOT of assumptions and missed that one...

I will concede, it was getting a bit off topic.

Define strawman argument! I pointed out several FACTUAL instances of the Dem faction attacking (sometimes fatally) our individual rights to counter your one, weak BS "dig". These events may be silly to you, but they are serious to me, as I have studied the consequences of an over-reaching government and the attitude towards the citizenry in these instances is dangerous. Combine the assaults on our individual liberties with the fiscal tyranny emanating from the Federal Reserve and our liberty is truly being challenged. You keep "digging", I'll keep fighting

You brought up things that weren't directly involved with politics. Black Panthers? Really. They were a militant group fighting because of race, not politics. Its easily confused but I think that is a horrible argument. The point wasn't who they voted for, the point was they're doing something because they're motivated by politics. (I mean directly before someone tries to be difficult). I wasn't looking for a fight, I just find it hilarious people resort to the Tea Party for things because it seems hip when real moderates/libertarians/independents/etc are being overlooked.

By your logic, it seems I could cite the Civil War as a right-wing attack on the nation.

Napoladoesntdoherjob putting right wingers on a watch list? Although the list may be way too broad, people seem to be offended for the reason you stated. They're right wingers. I think its pretty obvious, even just reading these forums, that some right wingers should be put on the list. Sovereign Citizens shooting down cops make the argument for me, and they seem to be directly involved in politics. So does a curb stomping at a rally.

Like I said, I get the whole ebil gubmit argument. But I'm still amazed how the Tea Party, which seems silly as a whole, gets more attention than more level-headed people like Sink-Burris.

Building more on that, I'm amazed how people ***** about "Washington/Government as usual" but then want to put anyone who reaches across the aisle on a pike.

Since I love getting things sidetracked, this is post 223 for me and i giggled.

 

[gunowner930]

I literally did not say anyone who disagreed with Lugar was part of the Tea Party. I don't even see where there was confusion...

The confusion happens when you add a picture of a woman who can't spell at a tea party rally and sarcastically offer that as a solution to Lugar.

Thinks for himself being relative to his job. I.E. people are tired of party loyalty, buying in to lobbyists, etc. I guess I'm going to have to be more explicit from now on....

Most of us don't care If Lugar thinks for himself or not, We disagree with his big government tendancies. Lugar has been a senator for almost 34 years, do you really think he doesn't have any ties to lobbyists?

I saw it was getting sidetracked which is why I didnt pick a part his post.

I don't get my news from the Daily Show, as you seem to be implying. lol Moreso, I can't remember when I last saw the Daily Show (or the Colbert Report if you resort to that). Can it be that i stumbled across some things in the vast reaches of the entrawebz? I think so. Thinking back, in my first post I even mentioned watching the past Senatorial debates. Since you're soooo eager to know these things, I'll tell you I even took my long-time gf on a date to watch the last one with me at VU.

You're also assuming I havn't stood up for Bush when I've also literally said nothing about him. I didn't agree with him on much...at all...but its stupid to call anyone a nazi other than Hitler. Sorry I'm not John Stewart? lol

Nazis are still around. and Hitler wasn't the only one.

I'm old enough, or at least, involved enough to remember those years better than bitter old people who may or may not be senile. =p Ironic you're talking down on me for making snappy decisions but it seems your post is full of assumptions. Once again, I think its pretty obvious that from the length of my first post, to my second post. Or even most of my post to my second post in this thread, I saw the direction it was going and intended to let John Galt take a jab at me and let it be. Funny how you made a LOT of assumptions and missed that one...

I will concede, it was getting a bit off topic.

You brought up things that weren't directly involved with politics. Black Panthers? Really. They were a militant group fighting because of race, not politics. Its easily confused but I think that is a horrible argument. The point wasn't who they voted for, the point was they're doing something because they're motivated by politics. (I mean directly before someone tries to be difficult). I wasn't looking for a fight, I just find it hilarious people resort to the Tea Party for things because it seems hip when real moderates/libertarians/independents/etc are being overlooked.

The Black Panthers were brought up because they were caught indimating voters on tape with nightsticks and blocking doors at the 2008 election. The wonderful Eric Holder refused to charge them. I wonder which presidential candidate they tried to block people from voting for? Video is posted below.

The Tea Party like any political movement will have its share of morons. I don't really think of the Tea Party as "hip" when its being bashed by leftist celebrities. In 2008 Obama was "hip."

By your logic, it seems I could cite the Civil War as a right-wing attack on the nation.

Napoladoesntdoherjob putting right wingers on a watch list? Although the list may be way too broad, people seem to be offended for the reason you stated. They're right wingers. I think its pretty obvious, even just reading these forums, that some right wingers should be put on the list. Sovereign Citizens shooting down cops make the argument for me, and they seem to be directly involved in politics. So does a curb stomping at a rally.

Wasn't just right-wingers. DHS told law enforcement to look out for returning war veterans, motorists with ron paul or chuck baldwin stickers, Gadsden flags, etc. All because of Mcveigh??? She probably get that straight from the rat Mark Potok.

So who on these forums should be put on a terrorist watchlist?

As far as citizens being justified in shooting cops, It's rare but you should read up on Randy Weaver.


You won't find anybody who posts here that supports the curb-stomping, that man should be prosecuted.

Like I said, I get the whole ebil gubmit argument. But I'm still amazed how the Tea Party, which seems silly as a whole, gets more attention than more level-headed people like Sink-Burris.

The Tea Party gets more attention because a lot more people identify with the Tea party than with the Libertarian Party. I like Rebecca Sink-Burris, but she had NO chance of winning that senate seat as a Libertarian. The Tea Party was effective at getting true limited government conservatives such as Rand Paul into office within the Republican Party. Would Rand Paul have been elected as a Libertarian? Bottom line is you need a D or a R next to your name to be relevant. That's why the Tea Party gets attention and Sink-Burris doesn't. Like it or not we have a two party system. Change can come from within the parties, but not as a third party.

Building more on that, I'm amazed how people ***** about "Washington/Government as usual" but then want to put anyone who reaches across the aisle on a pike.

Reaching across the aisle to "get things done" is rhetoric, nothing more. I'd rather government be deadlocked than pass crap like cap and trade or other things on the Obama agenda.

Since I love getting things sidetracked, this is post 223 for me and i giggled.

red=my responses.

YouTube - Obama Administration Protected Black Panther Who Advocates Killing White Babies

 

[John Galt]

"They were a militant group fighting because of race, not politics. Its easily confused but I think that is a horrible argument." - ghostinthewood

A horrible argument, seriously? It's ALL about politics, as the Left has manipulated and used the race card for decades and used the "minority" segment of our society to advance their political agenda. A militant minority group, caught on tape intimidating voters and the USAG refuses to investigate?

 

[jdmack79]

Yep. As has been stated elsewhere on the site, "We'll only be able to destroy the world 10 times over, now". There are plenty of votes to go after Lugar for. This ain't one of them.

Your only focusing on the Nuke aspect of the treaty. We are also signing away a good part of our missile defense program to the Russians. Your beloved Julian Assange has recently revealed that Venezuela has purchased missiles that can reach the Southern United States. Don't you want us to have the ability to protect ourselves?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

"They were a militant group fighting because of race, not politics. Its easily confused but I think that is a horrible argument." - ghostinthewood

A horrible argument, seriously? It's ALL about politics, as the Left has manipulated and used the race card for decades and used the "minority" segment of our society to advance their political agenda. A militant minority group, caught on tape intimidating voters and the USAG refuses to investigate?

He's trolling you bro.

Your only focusing on the Nuke aspect of the treaty. We are also signing away a good part of our missile defense program to the Russians. Your beloved Julian Assange has recently revealed that Venezuela has purchased missiles that can reach the Southern United States. Don't you want us to have the ability to protect ourselves?

No he doesn't.

 

[jeremy]

Hmmmm...

Sadly, I do not think it is a matter of whether someone is liberal or conservative as long as the listen to what their Constituents desire. Very few Professional Politicians do this...

 

[Expat]

Lugar is another Arlen Specter and has to go! Time has passed him by. He still thinks there is only one threat in the world and that is the USSR. He misses the days of the Cold War when he actually had some stature on the world stage as a Cold War warrior.

I am going to have to get my 12 year old neighbor over to explain the logic in some of the posts on this page... nah, not really.

 

[abnk]

Does Charlie Daniels play a mean fiddle?

 

[ghostinthewood]

The confusion happens when you add a picture of a woman who can't spell at a tea party rally and sarcastically offer that as a solution to Lugar.

I see that, once again, I guess I'll just have to be more explicit.

Most of us don't care If Lugar thinks for himself or not, We disagree with his big government tendancies. Lugar has been a senator for almost 34 years, do you really think he doesn't have any ties to lobbyists?

I'd buy that if Coats, a lobbyist, didnt get elected. Seems people like rhetoric.

Nazis are still around. and Hitler wasn't the only one.

Really? I see genocide in Africa, not America.

The Black Panthers were brought up because they were caught indimating voters on tape with nightsticks and blocking doors at the 2008 election. The wonderful Eric Holder refused to charge them. I wonder which presidential candidate they tried to block people from voting for? Video is posted below.

Yea, for as much as I hate to say it, that was a race thing. Don't pretend like the same didn't happen the other way around though.

The Tea Party like any political movement will have its share of morons. I don't really think of the Tea Party as "hip" when its being bashed by leftist celebrities. In 2008 Obama was "hip."

Things can be hip on the right too o.O

Wasn't just right-wingers. DHS told law enforcement to look out for returning war veterans, motorists with ron paul or chuck baldwin stickers, Gadsden flags, etc. All because of Mcveigh??? She probably get that straight from the rat Mark Potok.

Oh c'mon the majority of terrorists in this country have been right-wingers. McVeigh, Waco, a couple Sovereign Citizens here and there, the Phelps family. Like I said, it was way too broad, but to pretend there aren't any right-wing terrorist is silly.

So who on these forums should be put on a terrorist watchlist?

This is a gun owners forum, I may get shot. For real though, I can see some people being put on a watch list. I dont know if anyone is a terrorist, but i believe there is a thread that is stickied about civil war and I'm assuming its there for a reason.

As far as citizens being justified in shooting cops, It's rare but you should read up on Randy Weaver.

Not at all what I was talking about...

You won't find anybody who posts here that supports the curb-stomping, that man should be prosecuted.

I'm convinced I could after some of the things I've seen on here...lol

The Tea Party gets more attention because a lot more people identify with the Tea party than with the Libertarian Party. I like Rebecca Sink-Burris, but she had NO chance of winning that senate seat as a Libertarian. The Tea Party was effective at getting true limited government conservatives such as Rand Paul into office within the Republican Party. Would Rand Paul have been elected as a Libertarian? Bottom line is you need a D or a R next to your name to be relevant. That's why the Tea Party gets attention and Sink-Burris doesn't. Like it or not we have a two party system. Change can come from within the parties, but not as a third party.

8yrs ago I could buy that but there are a handful of independents and EVERYONE, right leaning or left leaning, is *****ing about the political tradition. It seems if people actually cared about that they'd vote for real independents, not lobbyists.

Reaching across the aisle to "get things done" is rhetoric, nothing more. I'd rather government be deadlocked than pass crap like cap and trade or other things on the Obama agenda.

I would rather a government that works for the people instead of acting like children and taking sides. Seriously, the Congress democrat or republican, has been childish for the past decade.

He's trolling you bro.

Yes, everyone that disagrees with you is a troll.

A horrible argument, seriously? It's ALL about politics, as the Left has manipulated and used the race card for decades and used the "minority" segment of our society to advance their political agenda. A militant minority group, caught on tape intimidating voters and the USAG refuses to investigate?

They're intimidating people because of race not because of their political affiliation, the video posted proves that. That guy is a racist. It seems that why they dropped the case is purely speculation. Maybe a lot of people *****ed about the government being focused too much on hate crimes so they dropped it finally?

I'm not saying that there aren't extremists on the left motivated by politics, or extremists that are left leaning, I'm just saying that is silly to pretend that the right is perfect or a good example of any kind.

Better examples would be PETA and the people they fund. Seriously, or the riots at the '00 DNC.

 

[John Galt]

He's trolling you bro.

Ya' think!

 

[nawainwright]

Oh c'mon the majority of terrorists in this country have been right-wingers. McVeigh, Waco, a couple Sovereign Citizens here and there, the Phelps family. Like I said, it was way too broad, but to pretend there aren't any right-wing terrorist is silly.

yeah a "couple of citizens here and there" but lets ignore everyone else and play anyone who focuses on them off as a tin foil hat group.

That is why it is suggested:

You are being called a troll specifically because all you have done is make knee jerk, offhanded, ignorant responses. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with you.

 

[ghostinthewood]

yeah a "couple of citizens here and there" but lets ignore everyone else and play anyone who focuses on them off as a tin foil hat group.

That is why it is suggested:

You are being called a troll specifically because all you have done is make knee jerk, offhanded, ignorant responses. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with you.

If I was to be doing that just to jerk knees around I wouldn't have posted as much as I did, or defended my position.

Moreso, most of this thread is bashing people and I get called out for knee jerking. Seriously? Thats weak man.

I do believe its possible that I have an opinion of the Tea Party that is different than ya'lls...No purple.

 

[Expat]

The folks at Waco were terrorists??? More like the Federal agents that massacred the people living there. Those people may have been kooks but they weren't harming anyone else that I have read about. There was no excuse to roll tanks on American citizens.

 

[photoshooter]

Question:

How many republicans now crying to oust Lugar, will march in lockstep to re-elect him - cause he's better than a democrat! - if Lugar wins the primary?

If you want him out of office, are you really serious? Or will you just look around and do what you did with Coats after he won the primary?

 

[ghostinthewood]

The folks at Waco were terrorists??? More like the Federal agents that massacred the people living there. Those people may have been kooks but they weren't harming anyone else that I have read about. There was no excuse to roll tanks on American citizens.

You know what, to be fair from my perspective, I think that statement and my original statement have merit.

Question:

How many republicans now crying to oust Lugar, will march in lockstep to re-elect him - cause he's better than a democrat! - if Lugar wins the primary?

If you want him out of office, are you really serious? Or will you just look around and do what you did with Coats after he won the primary?

See now this guy makes my Tea Party comments look silly. If most Tea Party members I encountered were like him, I would feel bad for saying those things.

 

[hornadylnl]

Question:

How many republicans now crying to oust Lugar, will march in lockstep to re-elect him - cause he's better than a democrat! - if Lugar wins the primary?

If you want him out of office, are you really serious? Or will you just look around and do what you did with Coats after he won the primary?

Oh, I'd say about 90% of the repubs here.

 

[chraland51]

I can not remember the last time that senile old man voted the way that I wanted to see him vote. I just figure that he is so much smarter and wiser than me and he is really voting for my best interests, but I just fail to understand his logic and wisdom and that it is really me that is at fault for being so ignorant and stupid.

 

[Expat]

I just hope we can get someone to run against him in the primary and win. I cast my vote for the Libertarian in the Coats election and would hate to have to do so again.

 

[88GT]

Oh, I'd say about 90% of the repubs here.

Based on what?

 

[Expat]

Based on what?

His ability to make up statistics