Is PCC the way to go?

[bwframe]

 

[KellyinAvon]

Whenever one of Coach's threads gets bumped and you see the BFT avatar... pollen count must be up.

This…

 

[BigMoose]

We may or may not be on the cusp of a civil war or vast civil unrest. For the person who has no shooting skills is PCC the way to go? Why or why not?

With the idea of getting a person with no training as prepared as possible for defending themselves and their family as fast as possible.

Well to answer an old question here. It is why the Army gave truck drivers, cooks, etc the M1 Carbine.

I keep thinking I will get a PCC one day, and realize I already own an M1 Carbine, which materially fills the role of a PCC

 

[KJQ6945]

I could teach a noob the four rules and give them a pistol, and take them to Friday night steel.

If they know the rules, they won’t shoot anybody else, and they won’t DQ.

Teaching them the four rules keeps them from shooting someone else, but it won’t keep them from embarrassing themselves on the range. They still can’t hit the target!

I can teach anyone, who has never fired a gun in their life, to shoot a suppressed PCC, with a red dot, and probably out score 50% of the pistol shooters at a match like FNS.

“Rifles” are just so much easier to shoot, and easier to be accurate.

I have taken multiple son in laws to FNS. Shooting a pistol at an event like that can be humiliating to new shooters. A suppressed PCC with a red dot can make it seem easy., and they want to do it again.

In the spirit of the original question, yes, PCC is the best answer for a non shooter in a SHTF scenario.

 

[Hawkeye]

I could teach a noob the four rules and give them a pistol, and take them to Friday night steel.

If they know the rules, they won’t shoot anybody else, and they won’t DQ.

Teaching them the four rules keeps them from shooting someone else, but it won’t keep them from embarrassing themselves on the range. They still can’t hit the target!

I can teach anyone, who has never fired a gun in their life, to shoot a suppressed PCC, with a red dot, and probably out score 50% of the pistol shooters at a match like FNS.

“Rifles” are just so much easier to shoot, and easier to be accurate.

I have taken multiple son in laws to FNS. Shooting a pistol at an event like that can be humiliating to new shooters. A suppressed PCC with a red dot can make it seem easy., and they want to do it again.

In the spirit of the original question, yes, PCC is the best answer for a non shooter in a SHTF scenario.

I think you have it right.

 

[cavallo]

I'm probably in the minority here because I have pistols but not one long gun.

I have thought about getting a long gun one day but I do almost all of my shooting at Marion Co Fish and Game. Because of where and how it is situated in relation to the city, the "big boy" calibers are not allowed there. (No 5.56 no 308, etc.) That restriction makes sense given the wide range of skills that go to the range - no criticism from me about it.

Taking a rifle to an indoor 25yd range doesn't sound like much of a challenge.

That leaves me with two options:
1) Get a real rifle caliber and find somewhere where long range shooting is an option (and not too crazy far away.)
2) Get a PCC and take it to MCFaG

I'm thinking more the second option and like the looks /options of the Ruger PC9. Any thoughts about that model?

 

[VERT]

3 years later and I still like my Sig MPX. It is a nice handling gun. I would not feel outgunned inside of 100 yards.

 

[spencer rifle]

I'm thinking more the second option and like the looks /options of the Ruger PC9. Any thoughts about that model?

I have the old model PC9 to go with my P-Series pistols. Like them, it is ugly (though I think efficiency and reliability have their own beauty), heavy and utterly reliable. It will shoot any ammo without complaint, and is difficult to disable. You could do worse ...cough...cough ...Calico...cough...

 

[marvin02]

I'm thinking more the second option and like the looks /options of the Ruger PC9. Any thoughts about that model

The PC9 is the older Ruger Carbine if you really mean that one @spencer rifle answered you above.

If you mean the newer Ruger PC Carbine I have two that I shoot in steel challenge. They both have run great for me. They can user Ruger SR9 mags or Glock mags.

If you own M&P pistols that take the full size double stack mags you should look at the M&P FPC. I have one and it's my favorite of the pistol caliber carbines I've tried.

 

[cavallo]

The PC9 is the older Ruger Carbine if you really mean that one @spencer rifle answered you above.

If you mean the newer Ruger PC Carbine I have two that I shoot in steel challenge. They both have run great for me. They can user Ruger SR9 mags or Glock mags.

If you own M&P pistols that take the full size double stack mags you should look at the M&P FPC. I have one and it's my favorite of the pistol caliber carbines I've tried.

You are absolutely right. As I look at the pictures, it is the PC that I mean. I have a metric ton of Glock magazines and would really like the ability to use those. I also like the after market upgrades I see.

 

[Cynical]

I'm probably in the minority here because I have pistols but not one long gun.

I have thought about getting a long gun one day but I do almost all of my shooting at Marion Co Fish and Game. Because of where and how it is situated in relation to the city, the "big boy" calibers are not allowed there. (No 5.56 no 308, etc.) That restriction makes sense given the wide range of skills that go to the range - no criticism from me about it.

Taking a rifle to an indoor 25yd range doesn't sound like much of a challenge.

That leaves me with two options:
1) Get a real rifle caliber and find somewhere where long range shooting is an option (and not too crazy far away.)
2) Get a PCC and take it to MCFaG

I'm thinking more the second option and like the looks /options of the Ruger PC9. Any thoughts about that model?

I have pistols, but I love rifles. I’m better with them. I’m just now finishing up with my AR9 build. Wish I would have done a little more research before I started but, having gobs of extra worthless parts makes my man cave look cool.

 

[flightsimmer]

I'm not a country boy but!
A shotgun, a rifle and a 45 has a nice ring to it.

On the other hand I've also got a Smith & Wesson 9 mm FPC which combined with a Smith & Wesson M&P 2.0 compact has a lot of good points to it for urban defense.

On the other hand, since I can't carry all of them, it would have to be mission specific which means I would have to have a safe place someplace to stockpile the others.

On the other hand outside of my Smith & Wesson 642, I have a terribly hard time deciding which weapon I want to use, there are just so many. LOL.

 

[armymen0268]

I thought the pcc was the way, paired with a Glock or something so mags stayed the same..It’s just not realistic.

 

[NHT3]

This…

Same here.. When I see the BFT avatar I think maybe it's just been a bad dream.

 

[VERT]

I thought the pcc was the way, paired with a Glock or something so mags stayed the same..It’s just not realistic.

How so? We had a young man at the shop yesterday looking for his first firearm. He was interested in a gun he could carry, use for home defense and shoot at the range. He was interested in AR-15s of which we have plenty. The clerk also showed him both the S&W carbines, both M&P and Glock pistols. Let’s add it up:

4” M&P9 with optics ready with suppressor height night sights $449.

S&W FPC $599 (the response would cost more)

Put an optic on the FPC - $250. Or maybe a set of Magpul BUIS for $100.

So for $1200 - $1300 a person could have two guns they can actually shoot at almost any range. 6 magazines. Ability to upgrade sights in the future. The guns would be capable of most any task out to about 75 - 100 yards. Not a bad option for people starting their journey.

Oh, 9mm can still be had for about $0.24 a round instead of whatever .223 is doing right now.

For the record my first recommendation would be for all Americans to own a double stack 9mm Glock Pistol and an AR-15. But that is not necessarily the most practical option for everyone. I will admit I rarely take the AR-15 out of the safe, while the PCC sees more range time.

 

[armymen0268]

How so? We had a young man at the shop yesterday looking for his first firearm. He was interested in a gun he could carry, use for home defense and shoot at the range. He was interested in AR-15s of which we have plenty. The clerk also showed him both the S&W carbines, both M&P and Glock pistols. Let’s add it up:

4” M&P9 with optics ready with suppressor height night sights $449.

S&W FPC $599 (the response would cost more)

Put an optic on the FPC - $250. Or maybe a set of Magpul BUIS for $100.

So for $1200 - $1300 a person could have two guns they can actually shoot at almost any range. 6 magazines. Ability to upgrade sights in the future. The guns would be capable of most any task out to about 75 - 100 yards. Not a bad option for people starting their journey.

Oh, 9mm can still be had for about $0.24 a round instead of whatever .223 is doing right now.

For the record my first recommendation would be for all Americans to own a double stack 9mm Glock Pistol and an AR-15. But that is not necessarily the most practical option for everyone. I will admit I rarely take the AR-15 out of the safe, while the PCC sees more range time.

I would much rather have a rifle caliber and then a pistol on my hip. The rifle caliber round just does so much better in a time of battle.

 

[VERT]

I would much rather have a rifle caliber and then a pistol on my hip. The rifle caliber round just does so much better in a time of battle.

No argument there. Rifle > Pistol.

1) I can use a PCC for Steel Challenge or USPSA.
2) I can shoot a PCC in the pistol bays at my local range
3) I can shoot a PCC at any indoor range
4) 9mm is half the price and available
5) A PCC with 147 grain hollow points indoors is easier on the ears and concussion than a rifle. I have never measured it but probably similar to the .223 with a can.

What I have never had to do is fight a battle in my front yard. I suppose given the choice I would grab the rifle. But I wouldn’t hesitate to fight with my PCC. Especially if that were the gun I had more opportunity to practice with and shoot.

 

[KJQ6945]

I would much rather have a rifle caliber and then a pistol on my hip. The rifle caliber round just does so much better in a time of battle.

Like Vert said, rifle is better than pistol. No argument.

The rifle is far more lethal, but it does have drawbacks. Especially for new shooters, which was the original premise of this thread/question.

The original question was, what do you outfit a new shooter with in a SHTF situation. (It’s an old thread, I’m guessing without going back)

The PCC/Subgun is awesome in this role for numerous reasons, most of which Vert laid out.

If somebody breaks into my house in the middle of the night, I’m not grabbing a a rifle to fight from my bedroom or my closet. As a stamp collector, I’ve got a few SBRs. 10.3” is about as short as you can go with a 5.56 and still hope to stabilize the bullet. Go shorter than that, and it’s just a flame thrower spitting out .22’s a little faster than a pistol caliber.

I can use a suppressed subgun and still be shorter and more maneuverable than a 10.3” rifle. I can give this to a non shooter to defend the castle, which is the point of this thread.

Rifle calibers are almost always superior. Until they’re not. Everything has limitations.

 

[INP8riot]

Being for a "new shooter" if they aren't prepared and knowledgeable, you could put anything in their hands and have it not turn out good. I really never understood the point of a PCC. I have an AR15 pistol to go small. That being said the wife wanted a CZ scorpion. She wanted it before she knew better and I couldn't tell her no! She still likes it but understands a rifle round is better.

 

[KJQ6945]

Being for a "new shooter" if they aren't prepared and knowledgeable, you could put anything in their hands and have it not turn out good. I really never understood the point of a PCC. I have an AR15 pistol to go small. That being said the wife wanted a CZ scorpion. She wanted it before she knew better and I couldn't tell her no! She still likes it but understands a rifle round is better.

Go into your bathroom, fire your AR pistol, and then the CZ Scorpion.

Now decide which one you’ll give to a new shooter. It could be your 10 year old daughter or your 85 year old father, or your wife.

And, by the way, your shower curtain is on fire from shooting the ar pistol in the bathroom.