Is the USA a free country?

[rambone]

Are we still the Land of the Free? Shouldn't we be striving to be the freest country on earth, within the confines of our constitution? Are we even close?




A free country would allow you to keep your earnings. Today, we are barely holding onto a "Top 10" ranking of economic freedom. Country Rankings for Economic Freedoms

A free country would not require you to pay taxes (RENT) on property that you own free and clear.

A free country would not have a multi-gazillion dollar national debt.

A free country would not ban a plant that grows naturally out of the ground.

A free country would not have the world's highest incarceration rate.

A free country would not have government agents setting up stop-and-search checkpoints... anywhere.

A free country would allow you to educate your children as you see fit, without compulsory education laws. You would not have your money taken from you to fund government indoctrination camps for children.

A free country would allow businesses to operate without millions of regulations to follow. Job growth is stifled because of too many laws. Running a business is a daunting task in America.

A free country would not have minimum and maximum wage limits imposed by the government.

A free country would not have a centralized bank controlled by a private international banking cartel.

A free country would not have 20,000+ gun control laws on the books infringing/denying the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

A free country would allow consenting adults to freely engage in voluntary agreements and contracts.

A free country would allow you to gamble in your home without breaking the law.

A free country would allow you to "own" your own body. You alone could decide what goes in. America tells people what they can and can't eat, drink, smoke, etc.

A free country would allow states to freely join the union and freely leave.

A free country would not entertain the idea of "selective service" to the government.

A free country would not submit to the will of the United Nations and would not fight foreign wars for their interests.

A free country would not hold the taxpayers accountable for providing a "safety net" to the poor, elderly, retired, lazy, stupid, etc.

A free country would not have a Marxist Progressive Income Tax system.

A free country would not confiscate wealth of a person when they die.

A free country would not force the taxpayers to pay for aid for foreign nations.

A free country would not send government agents out on the streets to fish for a chance to search their vehicle for arbitrarily banned items.

A free country would not have a Federal Government listed as its largest property owner.

 

[dross]

Can you show me an example of a free country as you see it?

 

[rambone]

Can you show me an example of a free country as you see it?

I don't think there are any left. Maybe an island somewhere.

 

[dross]

I don't think there are any left. Maybe an island somewhere.

Some from the past, then.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Sure we're free , as in you can do anything you want at least once .

 

[rambone]

Some from the past, then.

Our foundations laid out a framework for freedom. Since then, its been a sliding scale down toward where we are. Our freedom is inversely proportional to the size of the Federal Government. As the Feds reach new levels of control, we realize new lows of freedom.

I can think of one country that remains free. Antarctica.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Can you show me an example of a free country as you see it?

can you show me an example as a free country as you see it? also can you show me a free country as our constitution would see it?

I do not see a country here anywhere close to what the founders laid out for us. I think if they came back today and werent told the name of the country or government first, they would think the british had retaken the colonies.

 

[Eric J]

You forgot one;

A free country would let you run for any office you wanted, and elect your own leaders.

 

[dross]

Our foundations laid out a framework for freedom. Since then, its been a sliding scale down toward where we are. Our freedom is inversely proportional to the size of the Federal Government. As the Feds reach new levels of control, we realize new lows of freedom.

I can think of one country that remains free. Antarctica.

If you are measuring against an ideal, any real life situation will always come up short. This is the mistake that socialists always make.

It's like when I hear the U.S. criticized for brutality in a war. My question is always, compared to what? Because when compared to an ideal - no civilian casualties, no war crimes, no friendly fire incidents - then yes, we're brutal. When compared to every war fought and every army that has existed on this planet, then we are the most humane.

If you can't point to another large country that has sustained itself and remained free according to the list you used as a standard, then you're just back in the freshman dorm conjuring up unicorns over pizza, beer, and bongs.

If the U.S. suffers when compared to the Free State of Rambonovia, I can live with that.

 

[dross]

can you show me an example as a free country as you see it? also can you show me a free country as our constitution would see it?

I do not see a country here anywhere close to what the founders laid out for us. I think if they came back today and werent told the name of the country or government first, they would think the british had retaken the colonies.

Yes, but Ranger, our country started being different from what the founders laid out pretty much immediately after they ratified the Constitution. Our country hasn't ever been the country that people imagine it was. OUR FOUNDERS were the ones who started the movement away from what they founded.

And, as the left loves to point out, for many, many people in our country, it was a whole lot less free then than it is now. More than half the population couldn't vote or own property, and were restricted in many other ways. (I'm talking about blacks and women, but there are other examples.)

My point is just that when your ideals can't be made to work in the real world, it's your ideals that must be adjusted, not the real world.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Yes, but Ranger, our country started being different from what the founders laid out pretty much immediately after they ratified the Constitution. Our country hasn't ever been the country that people imagine it was. OUR FOUNDERS were the ones who started the movement away from what they founded.

And, as the left loves to point out, for many, many people in our country, it was a whole lot less free then than it is now. More than half the population couldn't vote or own property, and were restricted in many other ways. (I'm talking about blacks and women, but there are other examples.)

My point is just that when your ideals can't be made to work in the real world, it's your ideals that must be adjusted, not the real world.

yes, i see what your saying and historically its acurate, but i still hold out hope. i believe the govt we have is more corrupt now than ever before and now its bigger and can smite you without conviction.

 

[eldirector]

In absolute terms? Of course not. No one is truly "free", either by choice (how is that for irony) or by force.

In relative terms? Sure. We are actually doing a bit better than MANY other nations. Taxes are lower than most of Europe, and we can defend ourselves. We can speak and assemble pretty freely, as compared to say, China, Africa, or the Middle East. Heck, our "women folk" can vote, show their faces, uncover their hair, and even work outside of the home!

I think there is still a lot of room for improvement, though. In some areas, we may even be going a bit backwards.

Oh, and Antarctica isn't a country.

 

[Fletch]

My point is just that when your ideals can't be made to work in the real world, it's your ideals that must be adjusted, not the real world.

"The Christian faith has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."
-- G.K. Chesterton

 

[dross]

Oh, and Antarctica isn't a country.

Of course it isn't. Isn't it just another word for Canada? Which is a state.

 

[Fletch]

Of course it isn't. Isn't it just another word for Canada? Which is a state.

 

[dross]

"The Christian faith has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."
-- G.K. Chesterton

I'd make the same argument in reply to your quote. As I might point out, it has a hard time working even in the safe microcosm of a church. (I say that sociologically, not theologically, and without rancor.)

 

[E5RANGER375]

can we go back in time and change the outcome of the civil war? if so, i'll go live down south. I think that was the best chance we had at being free.

 

[jsgolfman]

The problem lies in thinking of freedom as an objective construct, when in reality it is an extremely subjective concept.

 

[Fletch]

I'd make the same argument in reply to your quote. As I might point out, it has a hard time working even in the safe microcosm of a church. (I say that sociologically, not theologically, and without rancor.)

My general point being that when you say it "can't be made to work", it tends to imply that it's actually been tried. And perhaps to some lesser extent it has, but as your own post says, those who proposed the USA in the first place broke it the next day.

If we look at different expressions of liberty, we can certainly find near-total freedom in historical models. Hong Kong was a bastion of economic freedom until China took it back (I'm unclear as to how much of that has remained since). Pre-NFA, the USA was a fine example of firearms freedom. As I hear it, the historical Irish had a great deal of sexual freedom. And even with stupid **** like the Alien & Sedition Acts, the USA has generally enjoyed a pretty extreme amount of expressive freedom.

I think the trick isn't looking for the one shining example of all freedoms, but noting how freedom in different categories has been maximized in various places, and pondering how to gather that maximization into one place. Just saying that "well, there's gotta be jackboots, sucks to be us" is more like running away from the problem than actually trying to address it.

 

[dross]

can we go back in time and change the outcome of the civil war? if so, i'll go live down south. I think that was the best chance we had at being free.

Unless you were black.