Is this legal in Indiana?

[.452browning]

was browsing apps for my iphone and found this and downloaded it just for funzies. it works quite well as described. it says its legal on there but i dont trust it. is it okay to have or should i delete it? it will tune into basically all indiana counties and i could even hear NYPD and LAPD. if i understand it right you can have it as long as you dont use it during a crime or to prevent law enforcement catching you, or use it to falsely claim to be a LEO. apparently it transmits via internet from other people with police scanners.

5-0 Radio Police Scanner Lite (Free) for iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad on the iTunes App Store

 

[RichardR]

I am not sure of the legality but it certainly is an interesting app, I think I am going to see if there is a similar one available on the droid system.

 

[SirRealism]

I inquired about the legality last year, and I believe, if you don't have an amateur license, it's illegal to use that in your car. Other than that, I believe it's legal. I have it for my droid.

IANAL

 

[Sylvain]

I am not sure why I would use that since im not a LEO, but if you are a LEO, especially off duty, it might be a good thing to have just to know if your fellow officers are ok (officer down calls and such).
As for civilians I dont know why you would use that, you will hear about real emergencies on the local radio, no need to listen to the police radio for that.

 

[littletommy]

I am not sure why I would use that since im not a LEO, but if you are a LEO, especially off duty, it might be a good thing to have just to know if your fellow officers are ok (officer down calls and such).
As for civilians I dont know why you would use that, you will hear about real emergencies on the local radio, no need to listen to the police radio for that.

It's a police scanner, instead of shelling out a few hundred clams for a real scanner, you can use your smart phone. It's not at all unusual for non LEOs to listen to them.

 

[RichardR]

I inquired about the legality last year, and I believe, if you don't have an amateur license, it's illegal to use that in your car. Other than that, I believe it's legal. I have it for my droid.

IANAL

I can't seem to find an app like that on my phone's app list, if you don't mind me asking, what is the name of the droid app that you are using?

 

[Scutter01]

I inquired about the legality last year, and I believe, if you don't have an amateur license, it's illegal to use that in your car. Other than that, I believe it's legal. I have it for my droid.

IANAL

Something about it being portable, IIRC.

 

[Citronman1980]

I can't seem to find an app like that on my phone's app list, if you don't mind me asking, what is the name of the droid app that you are using?

In my Droid Market it is called "scanner radio". I've been using it for over a year now. Kind of neat to listen to other places around the globe.

I tend to listen to it in the evening during large events in Indy. The "Expo" last summer was interesting to hear live over the radio.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

if i understand it right you can have it as long as you dont use it during a crime or to prevent law enforcement catching you, or use it to falsely claim to be a LEO. apparently it transmits via internet from other people with police scanners

It depends. Where are you listening? Just at home or cruising the mean streets?


IC 35-44-3-12
Unlawful use of a police radio; exemptions; "police radio" defined
Sec. 12. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) possesses a police radio;
(2) transmits over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes; or
(3) possesses or uses a police radio:
(A) while committing a crime;
(B) to further the commission of a crime; or
(C) to avoid detection by a law enforcement agency;
commits unlawful use of a police radio, a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) Subsection (a)(1) and (a)(2) do not apply to:
(1) a governmental entity;
(2) a regularly employed law enforcement officer;
(3) a common carrier of persons for hire whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
(4) a public service or utility company whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
(5) a person who has written permission from the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency to possess a police radio;
(6) a person who holds an amateur radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission if the person is not transmitting over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes;
(7) a person who uses a police radio only in the person's dwelling or place of business;
(8) a person:
(A) who is regularly engaged in newsgathering activities;
(B) who is employed by a newspaper qualified to receive legal advertisements under IC 5-3-1, a wire service, or a licensed commercial or public radio or television station; and
(C) whose name is furnished by his employer to the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency in the county in which the employer's principal office is located;
(9) a person engaged in the business of manufacturing or selling police radios; or
(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.
(c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:
(1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
(2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.
The term does not include a radio designed for use only in a dwelling.

Sounds pretty cool. Can you listen to IMPD's back channels?

 

[.452browning]

I only listened to it at home. I just thought it would be neat to see if it was the real deal. No practical use. Just interesting is all. I have mostly been listening to Morgan county but also to Marion county.

 

[canav844]

There was a case in Muncie a few months ago where a bank robbery was going on and the getaway driver had the app on the phone, fled (leaving his buddy behind) and was loitering in another parking lot listening with the windows down. A MPD officer heard it approached him and used it as basis for the arrest, DA charged him and dropped the charge two weeks later. The app isn't necessary with many newer smart phones, my android can go right to the source sites in the browser and play the feeds all day long.

Now having read the law my not a lawyer opinion is, the law states you must be receiving the signals allocated to the emergency services, and while your phone is a radio, it is receiving only the cellular signals, not the emergency signals, because that scanner feed comes to you as a retransmission of an emergency signal over a different frequency that is allocated to a different band by the FCC. If the apps are ruled capable, then any device capable of internet for use that is not "solely inside a dwelling" could be subject to the law, as it is currently written. However this is yet to be defined more clearly by the legislature and is yet to be brought up in court in Indiana.

I am however an Amateur Radio Operator (Extra Class), which makes it so I fit into one of the 10 exemptions of the law. Being an active amateur radio operator, along with some other training done professionally, not in a hobby level; I have an above average understanding of the radio side, that a defense lawyer, DA, judge or jury may not share; and even many in the radio community have made the claim that the voice message would be what the law is seeing as the signal, this was a contentious topic on those forums.

In IL the law just says not in commission of a crime; it's actually more lax, unlike they are with guns, go figure. If you want to get your FCC amateur license, the technician class is mostly basic math, physics/electrical theory and some common sense rules questions, $15 per attempt to pass the test is the license fee. The License is a common exemption in state law (KY, MN, FL, SD come to mind MI used to apply) that prohibits scanners, the only time scanner law is an issue for me is travel in NY, but even then I'm allowed to receive so long as it's part of an amateur band transmitter, so I give up a few features and listening to some radio systems in NY is on the itinerary.

So to the OP unless you meet an exemption; it's a gray area at best, with every chance of facing an arrest.

 

[kickbacked]

I am not sure why I would use that since im not a LEO, but if you are a LEO, especially off duty, it might be a good thing to have just to know if your fellow officers are ok (officer down calls and such).
As for civilians I dont know why you would use that, you will hear about real emergencies on the local radio, no need to listen to the police radio for that.

a lot of police are civilians

anyway i used the app last year when we had a real bad storm and were stuck down in the basement with the power out. It allowed me to hear where all the roads that were impassible were. and its also has an emergency channel for storm reports and such

 

[BURNSURVIVOR725]

i have a similar app. its not only entertaining but as an RA its very useful too. during dance (fight) i would have it going at the front desk for the other RA's. we would be able to hear when fights broke out or a party got shut down and be ready for the influx of sometimes hostile people if VUPD couldnt call and warn us/ <- 99% of the time they do an AWESOME job at this.

 

[RichardR]

Awesome, I found the app, it's up & running.

Apparently someone committed a battery on someone else couple of streets over, not a whole lot of details yet though.

 

[SirRealism]

Awesome, I found the app, it's up & running.

Apparently someone committed a battery on someone else couple of streets over, not a whole lot of details yet though.

I'm listening, too.

Like Sylvain, I used to wonder why anyone would want to listen. But it's very interesting, and a little addictive.

 

[Suprtek]

Here's a few web based feeds for Marion county. I'm sure there's others for other counties.

Marion County, Indiana (IN) Live Police, Fire, and EMS Scanners on RadioReference.com

 

[canav844]

a lot of police are civilians

anyway i used the app last year when we had a real bad storm and were stuck down in the basement with the power out. It allowed me to hear where all the roads that were impassible were. and its also has an emergency channel for storm reports and such

Fire channels are awesome for this when the weather turns bad, when I lived further up north not only would I listen to the plows to know the schedule and which roads had and had not been done and needed to be repeated but more than once I've altered my route on my commute to avoid an accident where ambulances where getting dispatched, which makes it so I'm on time to my destination and alleviates at least one more car in the traffic flow at the scene.

The police stuff can be entertaining, lots of odd calls, I used to dispatch, so there's some habit and keeping up on things for me; and I've heard at least a half dozen MWAG calls in the past year, knowing what was going on at the county fair while I was there proved helpful. It also helps drive home the when trouble happens the police are minutes away.

I've used it as a tool, when helping a local hospital assess what the radio equipment they were powering was actually there for, answering some 15 year old questions for them. It's also fun to listen in during an airshow to know what's up next or the lead plane calling out the formations, listen to air traffic control or the local landing strip and correlate it to planes flying overhead or seek out new frequencies that aren't published on the common databases.

But it's like almost any hobby out there, interests some doesn't interest others.

 

[.452browning]

There was a case in Muncie a few months ago where a bank robbery was going on and the getaway driver had the app on the phone, fled (leaving his buddy behind) and was loitering in another parking lot listening with the windows down. A MPD officer heard it approached him and used it as basis for the arrest, DA charged him and dropped the charge two weeks later. The app isn't necessary with many newer smart phones, my android can go right to the source sites in the browser and play the feeds all day long.

Now having read the law my not a lawyer opinion is, the law states you must be receiving the signals allocated to the emergency services, and while your phone is a radio, it is receiving only the cellular signals, not the emergency signals, because that scanner feed comes to you as a retransmission of an emergency signal over a different frequency that is allocated to a different band by the FCC. If the apps are ruled capable, then any device capable of internet for use that is not "solely inside a dwelling" could be subject to the law, as it is currently written. However this is yet to be defined more clearly by the legislature and is yet to be brought up in court in Indiana.

I am however an Amateur Radio Operator (Extra Class), which makes it so I fit into one of the 10 exemptions of the law. Being an active amateur radio operator, along with some other training done professionally, not in a hobby level; I have an above average understanding of the radio side, that a defense lawyer, DA, judge or jury may not share; and even many in the radio community have made the claim that the voice message would be what the law is seeing as the signal, this was a contentious topic on those forums.

In IL the law just says not in commission of a crime; it's actually more lax, unlike they are with guns, go figure. If you want to get your FCC amateur license, the technician class is mostly basic math, physics/electrical theory and some common sense rules questions, $15 per attempt to pass the test is the license fee. The License is a common exemption in state law (KY, MN, FL, SD come to mind MI used to apply) that prohibits scanners, the only time scanner law is an issue for me is travel in NY, but even then I'm allowed to receive so long as it's part of an amateur band transmitter, so I give up a few features and listening to some radio systems in NY is on the itinerary.

So to the OP unless you meet an exemption; it's a gray area at best, with every chance of facing an arrest.

thanks for the info what is the difference when some channels say amateur radio and others say public safety?

 

[CopperWires]

I like to listen during large events such as the Kentucky Derby Festival. You can hear a lot of unusual stuff when all sorts of life crawl out of the woodwork to come out for the free festivities.

 

[cowgirl.sdm]

I also have one on my phone. Does this mean we cannot use it in are car or can we use it as long as we are not using it for a crime?