Issue trying to zero my new AR

[sdtech58]

Went to the range on Saturday to zero my new AR, and it didn't go so well. It's a Troy 16" upper (factory new) on an Anderson lower using a Bushnell Elite Tactical 1-6.5x24 scope/ADM QD mount. Using 55 gr 5.56mm reman ammo. I was able to hold about a 3" 5-round group with my Colt/Red-Dot off the sled with this ammo on the same day. Target was a 12" shoot and see at 100 yards. No real wind to speak of.

I did not bore sight prior to going to the range, but was on a 12" circle @ 100 yds after about 5 or 6 rounds. It was about 4" high and 3.5" left of center. Shot 4 more at that setting to establish a group. 2 of these went through basically the same hole as the first one on paper, but the other 2 were nowhere to be found. I made an adjustment based on the 3 through the same hole, then fired about 10 more. 5 of these were in the 12" circle, 5 were not. No real group. They were pretty scattered. All shooting was done from a lead sled.

At this point, I pulled the upper off to check the barrel and also verified that the scope and mount were not moving. No issues there. I gave the rifle to my buddy (a very experienced rifle shooter), and he busted off about half a mag from his sandbag rapid fire. 8 or 9 of these were in the circle, but again no real group to speak of.

I'm pretty frustrated now, so I went down to reset targets and relieve some tension with my 9mm...I came back and put it back on the sled. Shot one full mag and ended up with 26 of 30 in the 12" circle, but not able to establish any real group to speak of. It's cheap ammo and a new rifle, but I should be getting better that 12+ MOA, right???

Not sure what else to do. Does this barrel just need more rounds through it, or ??? As it sits, it's got about 60-70 through it. I have not cleaned anything yet. What should I do next?

I guess the good news is that the gun ran with no issues...

 

[padawan]

On 1st thought, I would suggest trying 2 or 3 + different loads/mfg of ammo. Assuming everything is tight and working properly.

Don't be frustrated. Most folks have been there...

 

[dfcrane]

If possible, I would also try a different scope if you have another one or could borrow one from a buddy.

 

[halfmileharry]

New AR so are you following a break in procedure? Shoot a few rounds, swab, shoot a few rounds, swab. repeat, lather, and rinse.

 

[rvb]

Using 55 gr 5.56mm reman ammo.

get some known good ammo and start there.

put known good scope on troubled gun. could be a scope/mount problem.

-rvb

 

[ckcollins2003]

What kind of ammo were you using? Is it Freedom Munitions reman?

 

[rob63]

+1 on trying another sight. You mentioned that you have another red dot that is on the Colt that you know works ok, so swap the sights and see what happens. 1st step is to figure out if the problem is the rifle or the sight.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Spend a few $$$ on some Good Ammo. Break it in with the Reman, then go with the good for Zeroing.

 

[GIJEW]

I agree with trying a different scope. I'd expect more from a Bushnell Elite but maybe it was made late on friday? As for the other variable, ammo quality might even have as much effect on accuracy as a good barrel. Your process of elimination seems short.

 

[halfmileharry]

I have seen a few new barrels inconsistent until properly broken in.
Don't cheap out with inferior ammo.
That's surely no way to sight in a rifle.
ONE fix at a time or you will continue guessing and scratching your head.
Clean barrel.
Run quality ammo.
Clean barrel.
Run quality ammo.
Clean barrel.
Do that a half dozen times at least.
THEN and only then start zeroing in with quality ammo.

 

[DRob]

I'm going to assume the barrel is a 1:7 - 1:9. If it's a slower twist (larger number) it probably will not like those bullets. You ID the bullet as a 55 gr 5.56 so I'm also going to assume it's an FMJ. What brand reman? As others have hinted, this is not going to be the load you might want to use in an attempt to establish satisfactory results. At 100 yards off a good solid rest and using good ammo, the gun should shoot at or near 1" at 100 yards.

As for trouble shooting the problem, change one thing at a time until you get better results.

Edit: Overlooked this, sorry. I see you're from Zionsville. It's a proximity to MDA issue!

 

[sdtech58]

I have seen a few new barrels inconsistent until properly broken in.
Don't cheap out with inferior ammo.
That's surely no way to sight in a rifle.
ONE fix at a time or you will continue guessing and scratching your head.
Clean barrel.
Run quality ammo.
Clean barrel.
Run quality ammo.
Clean barrel.
Do that a half dozen times at least.
THEN and only then start zeroing in with quality ammo.

How many rounds between cleanings would you recommend before I start trying to group and zero? Looks like the best place to start. I've seen quite a few different opinions out there for break-in procedures.

 

[rvb]

How many rounds between cleanings would you recommend before I start trying to group and zero?

if you can't hold 12 moa, this is not your problem. spend $20 on a box of "match" ammo, e.g. Fed Gold match. 69gr will work in anything 7-9 twist. $ says you will be <2 moa using a scope. then when you have confidence in your gun, you can start trying to find a bargain ammo that'll work.

-rvb

 

[halfmileharry]

How many rounds between cleanings would you recommend before I start trying to group and zero?

I usually run one round, swab, one round, swab, etc. You're well past that point which I don't even think is anything critical. That's the way I was taught and continue to do it.
Clean it real good to get any fouling out of new, sharp, grooves. At this point I'd waste that reman ammo doing a shoot and swab session.
Then go to some good ammo and get it on paper where you like it.
My guess is it's the reman ammo and new/dirty/semi fouled/ barrel.
You've got a good upper and I'm betting it's going to shoot tight as you can. IF you can keep it less than 4" at 100 yds with that optic I'd be happy and wouldn't be too upset if I got 5" groups out of it until you get it dialed in and yourself dialed in as well.
Remember to fix ONLY ONE thing at a time. Don't go messing with everything at once. You'll be clueless as to the real issue.

 

[Hookeye]

Initial clean of new barrel, then make sure it is free of any solvents or oils.............and then just shoot.
That's how I break my barrels in.
Not into BR............so am not trying to extend the cleaning interval.
I always run 1 in 9 twist, and 55gr non junker ammo.
My stuff doubles for varmint hunting, just reg 16" CARs...........shoot at or under 1 MOA scoped (after trigger spring change).

 

[sloughfoot]

I know very little about lead sleds. I have never used one. But I watched a guy struggle with one once. His shots were all over the place at 100 yards too. Until he pushed aside the contraption and used my backpack to shoot on. His group was within his hold capabilities at 3 or 4 moa with ball ammo.

I have seen the same thing with guys trying to shoot with a bipod from a hard surface. The rifle takes weird bounces when it fires. For me, I sling up and hold hard for consistency. And I don't trust many scopes.

All the above is FWIW. Just my observations since everything is tight with the rifle.

 

[Bfish]

The problem would seem to be in 1 of 3 areas, the optic, the ammo, or the rifle. Most likely in one of the first two. Try new ammo, something quality, and if it continues try a different optic. I am guessing you will find your weak link in one of those two places. If I had to guess it's an ammo issue, but who knows.

 

[rvb]

Bushnell Elite Tactical 1-6.5x24 scope/ADM QD mount.

IF you can keep it less than 4" at 100 yds with that optic I'd be happy and wouldn't be too upset if I got 5" groups out

huh? with a 6.5x scope? Why would he be happy w/ 4-5 moa groups? I can shoot 1.5 moa w/ my 4x PST. 2 moa w/ irons or dot. and I consider myself a crappy rifle shooter... (that's w/ 55gr bulk fmj hand loads I practice with, mixed brass, nothing special)
edit: or are you saying because of the ammo?


-rvb

I know very little about lead sleds. I have never used one. But I watched a guy struggle with one once. His shots were all over the place at 100 yards too. Until he pushed aside the contraption and used my backpack to shoot on. His group was within his hold capabilities at 3 or 4 moa with ball ammo.

I tried using a sled: once. but since he was getting ok groups w/ his other rifle, I figured it worked for him...

[I shot my first HP match last month... maybe see you at the next one if I can work it in my schedule]

-rvb

 

[halfmileharry]

huh? with a 6.5x scope? Why would he be happy w/ 4-5 moa groups? I can shoot 1.5 moa w/ my 4x PST. 2 moa w/ irons or dot. and I consider myself a crappy rifle shooter... (that's w/ 55gr bulk fmj hand loads I practice with, mixed brass, nothing special)
edit: or are you saying because of the ammo?


-rvb



I tried using a sled: once. but since he was getting ok groups w/ his other rifle, I figured it worked for him...

[I shot my first HP match last month... maybe see you at the next one if I can work it in my schedule]

-rvb

Yes, due to the ammo.

 

[SSGSAD]

Went to the range on Saturday to zero my new AR, and it didn't go so well. It's a Troy 16" upper (factory new) on an Anderson lower using a Bushnell Elite Tactical 1-6.5x24 scope/ADM QD mount. Using 55 gr 5.56mm reman ammo. I was able to hold about a 3" 5-round group with my Colt/Red-Dot off the sled with this ammo on the same day. Target was a 12" shoot and see at 100 yards. No real wind to speak of.

I did not bore sight prior to going to the range, but was on a 12" circle @ 100 yds after about 5 or 6 rounds. It was about 4" high and 3.5" left of center. Shot 4 more at that setting to establish a group. 2 of these went through basically the same hole as the first one on paper, but the other 2 were nowhere to be found. I made an adjustment based on the 3 through the same hole, then fired about 10 more. 5 of these were in the 12" circle, 5 were not. No real group. They were pretty scattered. All shooting was done from a lead sled.

At this point, I pulled the upper off to check the barrel and also verified that the scope and mount were not moving. No issues there. I gave the rifle to my buddy (a very experienced rifle shooter), and he busted off about half a mag from his sandbag rapid fire. 8 or 9 of these were in the circle, but again no real group to speak of.

I'm pretty frustrated now, so I went down to reset targets and relieve some tension with my 9mm...I came back and put it back on the sled. Shot one full mag and ended up with 26 of 30 in the 12" circle, but not able to establish any real group to speak of. It's cheap ammo and a new rifle, but I should be getting better that 12+ MOA, right???

Not sure what else to do. Does this barrel just need more rounds through it, or ??? As it sits, it's got about 60-70 through it. I have not cleaned anything yet. What should I do next?

I guess the good news is that the gun ran with no issues...

You live in Z'ville, I work in Z'vlle ..... If you want to meet, let me know, and just bring the setup, and I will be glad to give it

an eye ..... If you want, we can go to a range together, and see if we can find the problem .....

I own a Colt Match, and it is a 1:7 twist, and it eats 55 gr., NO PROBLEM .....