It's a little easier to understand when you can see it in a list......Rx drugs..

[ArcadiaGP]

Broad-brushing SSRI's as the cause to shootings might alienate some of your fellow INGO members.

Just FYI.

 

[rambone]

Broad-brushing SSRI's as the cause to shootings might alienate some of your fellow INGO members.

Just FYI.

Any mind-altering substance could be a factor in acts of violence. Could be alcohol, illegal drugs, or legal drugs. And sometimes the person doesn't need any additional stimuli to bring out violent behavior. There is nothing controversial in that statement.

Considering 1 in 10 in U.S. take antidepressants, I don't think it hurts to have a conversation about their listed side effects. The USA is the most drugged out culture in the world. People want answers to why America is so violent, maybe this unfortunate statistic is a part of it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Crazy people are crazy and mind-altering drugs alter people's minds...so profound.

Damnit, the guns must be the problem!

 

[Shelly1582]

It is not unheard of or a paranoid stretch to say that many anti depressants actually do the opposite of help in young adults and children. It is actually stated at the end of the advertisement when they quickly run through the possibility of explosive diarrhea, hairy tongue, driving walking or using machinery while sleeping without remembering, or death as possible but uncommon side effects of some of this mess. Look up increased risk of suicide associated with anti depressant use in young adults and children. How far apart are suicidal and homicidal in the world of drugged up kids? It is not a leap to say that as a society, we are over medicating our children and there are consequences.

 

[24Carat]

It is not unheard of or a paranoid stretch to say that many anti depressants actually do the opposite of help in young adults and children. It is actually stated at the end of the advertisement when they quickly run through the possibility of explosive diarrhea, hairy tongue, driving walking or using machinery while sleeping without remembering, or death as possible but uncommon side effects of some of this mess. Look up increased risk of suicide associated with anti depressant use in young adults and children. How far apart are suicidal and homicidal in the world of drugged up kids? It is not a leap to say that as a society, we are over medicating our children and there are consequences.

The " Paradoxical Reaction ". Even farther beyond the collective Phd holders on this board than the OP.

 

[88GT]

Read the side effects on antidepressants...teenage brains and young adult brains are wired different than mature adults...I do believe these drugs cause a problem...but I also believe that mental health officials, parents and others around young adults and teen who use these drugs or have mental health issues should be more active in observing what these kids are doing...and should be held accountable if they leave guns with in their reach, I mean if you are a parent or room mate and someone you know who has mental health issues and are receiving tons of shipments for gun and ammo...you should get involved, professionals should be able to call the police when their clients are talking about shooting people...hell with their rights at that point. The cops also need to take reports of suspected insane people buying guns more serious. Instead of saying our hands are tied can't do anything about it until they hurt them self or someone else.
Yes it does put some of us owning a gun at risk...but if you are mentally sound you should have nothing to worry about. Now this won't stop it all anyone can buy a gun off any street corner...but it might help put the spot light on the real issue of why most mass killings take place.

Sounds an awful lot like "If you have nothing to hide" argument.

Here's a parallel. You tell me how it sounds. Millions of people purchase and consume alcohol daily. Some to an excess that puts themselves and others at risk. We should take extra steps to limit the ability of these free citizens to make their own choices on the chance that they might hurt someone. Including steps that involve locking them up against their will, suspending their DLs, placing them on a national "Do Not Sell" list for alcohol. All of this before they do any actual harm.

Blaming the drugs is the same thing as blaming the gun. People mis-use firearms. People mis-use drugs. The answer isn't in banning either one.

In fact, there isn't an answer. Bad **** happens. Why can't people understand that?


EDIT: I will happily take a more updated correction if one can be found, but this seems to put the argument to bed.

 

[downzero]

People want answers to why America is so violent, maybe this unfortunate statistic is a part of it.

Or maybe it bears no relationship at all.

We don't really know, which is why I don't know what the purpose of this thread is.

Claiming that correlation = causation is no different than people saying that more guns = more crime, as if there is some causal relationship between those two things.

 

[rambone]

Or maybe it bears no relationship at all.

We don't really know, which is why I don't know what the purpose of this thread is.

We don't know, but finding out begins with a conversation.

 

[88GT]

Or maybe it bears no relationship at all.

We don't really know, which is why I don't know what the purpose of this thread is.

Claiming that correlation = causation is no different than people saying that more guns = more crime, as if there is some causal relationship between those two things.

Yes, you do.

We should start our own INGO version of SSRI stories where people didn't go on a murderous rampage and use that to prove that there is no relationship to behavior and SSRIs.

I'll go first. I've been on SSRIs 3 separate times in my life. The first in high school. That magical under-24 age when I should have killed my mom and stabbed all my classmates with my #2 pencil (we didn't have firearms in my house growing up; gotta use what was available). The second and third were to treat PPD. And in point of fact, aside from the depression, my other most prominent symptom was not the commonly-found anxiety, but rage. Break things rage. Throw things rage. Lash out at people rage. Funny thing, taking the SSRI made it better, not worse.

 

[rambone]

Blaming the drugs is the same thing as blaming the gun. People mis-use firearms. People mis-use drugs. The answer isn't in banning either one.

You can be against prohibition and still speak against a particular societal habit. Alcohol is a good parallel.

People in this country are drugged to absurd levels, particularly with psychotropic drugs. Nobody thinks about the side effects if nobody brings them up.

 

[williamsburg]

Or parents could start actually doing the hard work of parenting, instead of parenting from a bottle.

The whole parenting issue has been lost for a long time. You can no longer dicipline your child. I remember just the threat of being hit with a switch would make me think twice. Can't go spanking a kid without child abuse being yelled. You can't send your kid to bed without dinner for the same reason. When I was younger the fear of dicipline was all that was needed. Nobody gets spanked (and embarrassed) in front of the class and their friends anymore.

Then when there is an issue where behavior is a problem the first thing preached is counseling. Then with counseling ,whether at the school level or professional level, the first recommendation is "behavioral" drugs. Most parents don't protest and just go along "after all they are the dr. so they know best".

Ultimately kids today know there is no harsh consequences when it comes to doing something wrong. How many kids get into trouble repeatedly and it's always a slap on the wrist. Where is the fear of getting caught doing something wrong nowadays? It's gone.

/rant

 

[88GT]

You can be against prohibition and still speak against a particular societal habit. Alcohol is a good parallel.

People in this country are drugged to absurd levels, particularly with psychotropic drugs. Nobody thinks about the side effects if nobody brings them up.

What do you care what other people are doing? I thought libertarians were a live-and-let-live kind of group.

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you have a personal vendetta against the pharma industrial complex, would it?

 

[level.eleven]

What do you care what other people are doing? I thought libertarians were a live-and-let-live kind of group.

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you have a personal vendetta against the pharma industrial complex, would it?

Rivaled only by the educational industrial complex. Of course, it will be all different.

 

[rambone]

What do you care what other people are doing?

Umm. I can give you TRILLIONS of reasons why the overdrugging of America is affecting me. Maybe you've heard of Medicare Part D? Obamacare, perhaps? Our government masterfully funnels our money directly into the pockets of whichever corporations lobbied the hardest.

People in our society are conditioned from birth that all of life's problems can be modified or fixed with a drug. Don't bother losing weight, don't bother changing your diet, don't bother getting some new hobbies, don't bother exercising... just take a pill.

And even if I wasn't footing the bill for this absurd medical model, I still am obliged to speak out against it.

I thought libertarians were a live-and-let-live kind of group.

This is kind of logic you used when you told me that saying "Vote for _____" was anti-libertarian. The argument still makes no sense.

Free market regulation (as opposed to government regulation) includes consumer advocates speaking out for and against products and practices and influencing the market through the use of free flowing information. It also includes boycotts. This is a necessary part of a free market.

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you have a personal vendetta against the pharma industrial complex, would it?

No more than your personal affinity for it.