John Linebaugh’s 45 Colt loads.

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Now that's interesting. I've been going down a rabbit trail lately trying to do some penetration testing with hard cast .45 ACP +P compared to .44 Magnum out of a short barrel. I'm curious just how much performance I could get out of my P220 Compact as a woods gun compared to my snubby Model 69. I know the short barrel has to be hurting the performance of the .44...I'm curious just how much difference there is between that and a heavy hard-cast .45 ACP +P at the target.

I’m not sure these will feed in a 1911 and, I’m pretty sure I’d beat the snot out of one without a recoil spring change. That’s one reason for putting them into AutoRim cases.
What have you done with the 230gr bullets to this point?

 

[92FSTech]

I thought really hard about getting one of the Smith 69’s when they first came out, but I’ve been a 45 guy son+ day one and although I’ve had a few 44 specials ove the years, I just never could get into them. No good reason!and honestly these days I shoot more .45 S&W handloads which basically duplicate the 44 special, and aren’t too far off of 45 colt. They use a little less powder and shoot just as good so they are find for paper and steel!

The 69 is a really nice revolver. It's got enough of the new design elements that most traditionalists aren't fans, but I really like mine. Recoil will get to you pretty quick with full-house magnums, though...I'm usually good for 20-25 rounds before my hands start shaking and my flinch gets out of control!

I've got a cast handload that I load near the bottom of the magnum load range, and it's a sweetheart with those.

 

[92FSTech]

What have you done with the 230gr bullets to this point?

Not much, just shot some water-filled milk jugs to try and establish a baseline. Underwood and Buffalo Bore each make a 255gr hard cast .45 ACP +P load....I'm considering getting some of that to shoot jugs with and chronograph, and if the performance is viable, maybe try and replicate it.

 

[Creedmoor]

Interesting read, and some think we grunts can't read...

And I've learned that a Grunt that stands his ground with his believes is not a proper Marine. I'm gonna guess it was a POG that said that.

 

[Slow Hand]

Not much, just shot some water-filled milk jugs to try and establish a baseline. Underwood and Buffalo Bore each make a 255gr hard cast .45 ACP +P load....I'm considering getting some of that to shoot jugs with and chronograph, and if the performance is viable, maybe try and replicate it.

Lee makes a decent 255gr rnfp that will probably feed in your auto. I have the 200 gr version and it works equally well in an auto loaders and revolvers. Levergins too! It’s got a decent meplat, so it should transfer energy well.

 

[Methane Herder]

Didn't read the entire article, but the premise is sound.
I've shot many a "hot" .45Colt loads in my .454 Casull.
It's a step down from the .454, but the company that loaded these hot .45Colt loads claim they come close to reaching .44mag speeds with a 300gr bullet.
I know they can drop a deer in short order if placed properly.

IIRC Speer reloading manual listed .45 Colt loads specifically for some Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawks that were very near equivalent to .44 Remington magnum in performance. The pistols covered utilized the same frames as the Super Blackhawk. I think any three screw .45 Colt Blackhawks fit that bill.

MH

 

[DadSmith]

Now that's interesting. I've been going down a rabbit trail lately trying to do some penetration testing with hard cast .45 ACP +P compared to .44 Magnum out of a short barrel. I'm curious just how much performance I could get out of my P220 Compact as a woods gun compared to my snubby Model 69. I know the short barrel has to be hurting the performance of the .44...I'm curious just how much difference there is between that and a heavy hard-cast .45 ACP +P at the target.

Here is a video showing velocity of several different 44mag loads from a short barrel 44mag.
If you know what your 45acp +p velocity is and weight you can compare it with the velocities from this video.

 

[Slow Hand]

Here is a video showing velocity of several different 44mag loads from a short barrel 44mag.
If you know what your 45acp +p velocity is and weight you can compare it with the velocities from this video.

Didn’t watch the video yet, but remember you’ll lose slightly less velocity in an auto due to no barrel/cylinder gap.

 

[92FSTech]

If you know what your 45acp +p velocity is and weight you can compare it with the velocities from this video.

Yeah, I've watched quite a few of those videos, but there's no substitute for doing it yourself with your own guns and ammo. I'll definitely compare any data that I get to the videos, though, as I don't really have the means to do a true scientific test with ballistic gelatin...I'm just trying to compare the performance to two specific loads out of two specific guns.

So far I've shot my standard 230gr .45ACP load at around 850FPS (still need to actually chronograph that specific bullet out of the actual gun) and a semi-jacketed flat-point 240gr .44 mag load that gives me 1158FPS out of my snubby. Neither of these loads are hard-cast or +p. I set up a stack of milk jugs with 4 layers of cotton cloth in the front, a gallon milk jug, a 3/4" piece of hardwood plywood, and then a row of water-filled jugs behind. I got 43" of penetration with the .44 and recovered the bullet in a jug. I got 41" with the .45 ACP before it went out the side and disappeared into the berm. So functionally, not much difference with those loads...but neither are particularly fast moving, nor are they using bullets specifically designed for deep penetration.

I want to get some of the Underwood or Buffalo Bore factory stuff to see a.) how the .44 and .45ACP compare to each other, b.) how my current handloads stack up against them, and c.) can I safely get close to replicating the same performance in a (much cheaper) handload. I've been dragging my feet because that boutique ammo is stupid expensive, and it takes me a while to accumulate that many milk jugs!

Lee makes a decent 255gr rnfp that will probably feed in your auto. I have the 200 gr version and it works equally well in an auto loaders and revolvers. Levergins too! It’s got a decent meplat, so it should transfer energy well.

I have that mold, and really like it. I'm a big fan of the sharp shoulders on a SWC bullet, but my 1894s hate them. The RNFP profile feeds beautifully in everything. With the wide meplat of the Lee Mold, I don't think I'm giving up much to the more traditional SWC, either. I actually switched to the 230GR conical flat point for .45ACP, too (pictured above), from the 228gr LRN mold because the ogive on the round nose bullet wouldn't chamber in my Blackhawk. The chamber throats in the .45ACP cylinder have a sharp 90 degree angle instead of the tapered throat of most semi-auto barrels, and the wide ogive of the Lee 228 bottoms out against that edge unless I seat them way deeper than I'm comfortable with. The conical flat point profile gives me a load that works well in everything, with the added benefit of a nice flat meplat at the front.

 

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@92FSTech
I need to send you some bullets…….

 

[Skip]

Yeah, I've watched quite a few of those videos, but there's no substitute for doing it yourself with your own guns and ammo. I'll definitely compare any data that I get to the videos, though, as I don't really have the means to do a true scientific test with ballistic gelatin...I'm just trying to compare the performance to two specific loads out of two specific guns.

So far I've shot my standard 230gr .45ACP load at around 850FPS (still need to actually chronograph that specific bullet out of the actual gun) and a semi-jacketed flat-point 240gr .44 mag load that gives me 1158FPS out of my snubby. Neither of these loads are hard-cast or +p. I set up a stack of milk jugs with 4 layers of cotton cloth in the front, a gallon milk jug, a 3/4" piece of hardwood plywood, and then a row of water-filled jugs behind. I got 43" of penetration with the .44 and recovered the bullet in a jug. I got 41" with the .45 ACP before it went out the side and disappeared into the berm. So functionally, not much difference with those loads...but neither are particularly fast moving, nor are they using bullets specifically designed for deep penetration.

I want to get some of the Underwood or Buffalo Bore factory stuff to see a.) how the .44 and .45ACP compare to each other, b.) how my current handloads stack up against them, and c.) can I safely get close to replicating the same performance in a (much cheaper) handload. I've been dragging my feet because that boutique ammo is stupid expensive, and it takes me a while to accumulate that many milk jugs!

I have that mold, and really like it. I'm a big fan of the sharp shoulders on a SWC bullet, but my 1894s hate them. The RNFP profile feeds beautifully in everything. With the wide meplat of the Lee Mold, I don't think I'm giving up much to the more traditional SWC, either. I actually switched to the 230GR conical flat point for .45ACP, too (pictured above), from the 228gr LRN mold because the ogive on the round nose bullet wouldn't chamber in my Blackhawk. The chamber throats in the .45ACP cylinder have a sharp 90 degree angle instead of the tapered throat of most semi-auto barrels, and the wide ogive of the Lee 228 bottoms out against that edge unless I seat them way deeper than I'm comfortable with. The conical flat point profile gives me a load that works well in everything, with the added benefit of a nice flat meplat at the front.

Here are some of my 45ACP loads that I’ve run in a few of my 1911’s or my M625’s from time to time.
The ones on the far right, I don’t have the mold for nor any bullets left. My friend sent me some to try and he has passed away. The owner of the mold is gone too. They weighed in at 270gr!
In the last photo, I had some Sabot’s that I stripped out and was fooling around with. They look bad to the bone, not sure they were real practical! Hahaha

 

[92FSTech]

They weighed in at 270gr!

That's a monster! How did those work in your 1911?

 

[Skip]

That's a monster! How did those work in your 1911?

Never shot them in one. Just the wheel gun. It liked them! I put those whomper loads in it. I also have a Blackhawk convertible 45ACP/Colt I could run them in.
I’m not a huge fan of old slabsides and I don’t trust them for those heavy loads. Just me though. YMMV

 

[Leadeye]

I've used the old Lyman 452651 in a variety of 454 and 45 Colt loads for the Blackhawk, SRH and rifle. Feeds well in levers, and it has two crimp grooves for different lengths. That ammo stays in a well marked box to keep it out of my older guns.

 

[Skip]

I've used the old Lyman 452651 in a variety of 454 and 45 Colt loads for the Blackhawk, SRH and rifle. Feeds well in levers, and it has two crimp grooves for different lengths. That ammo stays in a well marked box to keep it out of my older guns.

View attachment 325182

Do you use gas checks on your loads then?

 

[Leadeye]

Do you use gas checks on your loads then?

For that bullet yes, I use a big charge of Lil Gun with the 452651 and a gas check. Most all of my 45 Colt is 250 grain cast over 8 grains of Unique as I shoot mostly older guns like the New Service and SAAs. I do have an old S&W HE that gets 45 AR cartridges loaded with cast 230s.

 

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My preferred bullets for the 45 Colt are the LHP bullets in the middle in the pictures. I can cast them solid. They weigh in at 295gr, as cast HP, they weigh right at 250gr. The ones on the right are a copy of Elmer’s 45 Colt SWC, they weigh as cast @ 285gr.
I have pushed the 250gr out of my M92 lever gun to just under 1800fps. They are really hot loads. They develop 1400fps out of my RBH. That rounded nose makes chambering in the rifle a piece of cake. My 1894 Marlin in 44Mag likes the same profile bullet cast at .434”. I don’t have any gas check molds and have had no need. I do try to use the old lead friendly powders though: Unique, 2400, H110/W296 (Bullseye for powder puff stuff) and have had no problems with melted bases.
The bullet on the left is Elmer’s 502 for the 45AutoRim cases. They weigh in at 240gr.
I really like having the ability to cast my own bullets. I can have what I want, when I want, in the quantity I want.

 

[92FSTech]

Never shot them in one. Just the wheel gun. It liked them! I put those whomper loads in it. I also have a Blackhawk convertible 45ACP/Colt I could run them in.
I’m not a huge fan of old slabsides and I don’t trust them for those heavy loads. Just me though. YMMV

Don't blame you there...I would feel pretty squeamish about trying it in mine, which is why I was curious if you had success in yours. That may be a mystery best left unsolved!

 

[Skip]

Don't blame you there...I would feel pretty squeamish about trying it in mine, which is why I was curious if you had success in yours. That may be a mystery best left unsolved!

I think hot rodding the 45ACP should be relegated to heavy revolvers, OR, 1911’s by someone with more knowledge on recoil spring selection than me! Lol
Now, I do have a Glock 21 that I’d have no problem shooting anything in! Lol

 

[Leadeye]

My preferred bullets for the 45 Colt are the LHP bullets in the middle in the pictures. I can cast them solid. They weigh in at 295gr, as cast HP, they weigh right at 250gr. The ones on the right are a copy of Elmer’s 45 Colt SWC, they weigh as cast @ 285gr.
I have pushed the 250gr out of my M92 lever gun to just under 1800fps. They are really hot loads. They develop 1400fps out of my RBH. That rounded nose makes chambering in the rifle a piece of cake. My 1894 Marlin in 44Mag likes the same profile bullet cast at .434”. I don’t have any gas check molds and have had no need. I do try to use the old lead friendly powders though: Unique, 2400, H110/W296 (Bullseye for powder puff stuff) and have had no problems with melted bases.
The bullet on the left is Elmer’s 502 for the 45AutoRim cases. They weigh in at 240gr.
I really like having the ability to cast my own bullets. I can have what I want, when I want, in the quantity I want.

It would be tough for me to shoot my old stuff without casting. Accurate mold has been my go to place for odd calibers.